Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[lead82]

If I were a betting man, neither extensions will happen in the next 30 years. I think the Sheppard LRT will be sacrificed first to let the money flow to the BD extension to SCC and the EC East LRT.

 

[44 North]

If sheppard west does happen to downsview, many people would have stayed on if the line eventually ventured south but as the spadina extension has now been extended further west into Vaughan people will not stay on. Many times I had a choice when getting on dundas whether to go to yonge, transfer to go to St George and then transfer to go north on Spadina or go south at Dundas and go around the Union loop and avoid a transfer. The decision was which way would take longer taking into account the wait at Yonge and St George vs the few extra minutes to go around and no transfer. The time evened out and most of the times I chose to stay on and go around. I would have believed the same would have happened for the sheppard line if it went west to downsview and then south and of course hits St Andrews and Union. People would not need to worry about getting on the Yonge line and the crowds

I hear that. When working up at Downsview I would do the disjointed transfer, but omw home would oftentimes just do the loop (on occasion it'd be accidental because I fell asleep). But I was more talking abt those working in upper downtown or lower midtown etc and coming from the NW. Would they do the loop when coming south on U/S in the rush, or transfer at Sheppard West on Line 4 to Yonge (and/or take Line 5 at Cedarvale I guess)?

If I were a betting man, neither extensions will happen in the next 30 years. I think the Sheppard LRT will be sacrificed first to let the money flow to the BD extension to SCC and the EC East LRT.

If it was either/or, I'd more support Sheppard East to at least Vic Pk. And think this to be the likely outcome. Personally though I think neither would be good. Not that I'm against a northerly crosstown route, rather that I don't think heavy rail subways is the answer. I'd support unstudied options like a conversion of Line 4 to LRT and hybridizing the whole thing with the FWLRT and SELRT (thereby creating a pre-metro/stadtbahn/subway-like LRT line akin to Line 5). Or looking at a light metro line offering the exact same service as a heavy rail subway, but done more affordably (using smaller trains, smaller stations, less tunneling, etc) - not unlike the 70s and 80s era plans for a northerly crosstown route.

But ultimately I think a radial approach is the right answer. No more crosstowns. We need a new flying U line across the city from Sheppard/Don Mills area in the east, to Weston or Rexdale in the west. No question the demand is there. Once that's done, then we should look at lines that connect the spokes.

 

[edmundoconnor]

If the Sheppard LRT money is sacrificed for the SSE and Eglinton East LRT (or worse, just the SSE), then the cynicism demonstrated by some politicians will astound me. They would rather give their constituents on Sheppard absolutely nothing - nothing at all - than have an LRT *already operating*, and with no prospect of anything better in their lifetimes.

 

[dowlingm]

Which do you think is more likely, a Sheppard West extn, East, or both? And I guess what's the UT consensus on the matter?

To my mind, a Sheppard West extension happens when Downsview Airport is decommissioned, whenever that happens, because then you can stick a serious development there which could attract York U, downtown or North York students/workers.

My assumption was that if an Olympic bid was successful, it was the only piece of land in Toronto both big enough to put the Village but also be accessible to highways for games traffic. Obviously Bombardier would require a large go-away payment, but who knows what Bombardier's future is.

 

[jcam]

But ultimately I think a radial approach is the right answer. No more crosstowns. We need a new flying U line across the city from Sheppard/Don Mills area in the east, to Weston or Rexdale in the west. No question the demand is there. Once that's done, then we should look at lines that connect the spokes.

The expensive option would be to combine the DRL west, Jane LRT and Sheppard West extension into one subway, and link DRL east long as a through-run in Don Mills....turning Sheppard into the top piece of a circle line.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Interlining the Sheppard to Vaughn would also provide a seamless transfer to the Finch LRT for an easier uptown ride.

 

[BurlOak]

If sheppard west does happen to downsview, many people would have stayed on if the line eventually ventured south but as the spadina extension has now been extended further west into Vaughan people will not stay on. Many times I had a choice when getting on dundas whether to go to yonge, transfer to go to St George and then transfer to go north on Spadina or go south at Dundas and go around the Union loop and avoid a transfer. The decision was which way would take longer taking into account the wait at Yonge and St George vs the few extra minutes to go around and no transfer. The time evened out and most of the times I chose to stay on and go around. I would have believed the same would have happened for the sheppard line if it went west to downsview and then south and of course hits St Andrews and Union. People would not need to worry about getting on the Yonge line and the crowds

No doubt if Sheppard is extended to Downview and terminates there, then very few people will transfer from Sheppard to Spadina (unless they are going to York U). People from East of Yonge, and even those West of Yonge would likely go to Yonge and head south from there. The only exception is that if Yonge is so crowded that they may not get on, then they may go to Spadina (I doubt they can expect a seat on either line at rush).

That is why I want Sheppard to interline with Spadina. then riders from Don Mills would stay on to Spadina where they avoid a transfer and likely maintain their seat. Same thing with Vaughan, every second subway will still go straight downtown. Its only the fact that every second train may not be going the way people want. But if I were at Vaughan or Don Mills, and a train comes that is going the "wrong" way, my options are to wait 1 train and take a transfer free ride (likely with seat), or take the train in front of me that requires a transfer where I have to do some walking to transfer, may have to wait just as long for the train, and likely can't get a seat and may even be crowded like a sardine.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No doubt if Sheppard is extended to Downview and terminates there, then very few people will transfer from Sheppard to Spadina (unless they are going to York U). People from East of Yonge, and even those West of Yonge would likely go to Yonge and head south from there. The only exception is that if Yonge is so crowded that they may not get on, then they may go to Spadina (I doubt they can expect a seat on either line at rush).

That is why I want Sheppard to interline with Spadina. then riders from Don Mills would stay on to Spadina where they avoid a transfer and likely maintain their seat. Same thing with Vaughan, every second subway will still go straight downtown. Its only the fact that every second train may not be going the way people want. But if I were at Vaughan or Don Mills, and a train comes that is going the "wrong" way, my options are to wait 1 train and take a transfer free ride (likely with seat), or take the train in front of me that requires a transfer where I have to do some walking to transfer, may have to wait just as long for the train, and likely can't get a seat and may even be crowded like a sardine.

I agree. Just interline. And you open up a York Region-Scarborough commute by going to STC.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If it has to terminate at Line 1 it should go to Downsview Park station to connect with GO.

 

[dowlingm]

Interlining the Sheppard to Vaughn would also provide a seamless transfer to the Finch LRT for an easier uptown ride.

Sadly doing this now would likely be disruptive in a fairly big way, given the need to connect the tunnels, install switches and redesign the signalling, in addition to the obvious stuff like renovating the Sheppard platforms to their full length. Lots and lots of $, lots and lots of shutdowns. Given the tight turn out of (the current) Downsview, the Sheppard trains might have to wait until after crossing the Spadina line to curve under the airport lands and the diverging point might actually be between Finch West and Downsview Park stations.

 

[Markster]

Sadly doing this now would likely be disruptive in a fairly big way, given the need to connect the tunnels, install switches and redesign the signalling, in addition to the obvious stuff like renovating the Sheppard platforms to their full length. Lots and lots of $, lots and lots of shutdowns. Given the tight turn out of (the current) Downsview, the Sheppard trains might have to wait until after crossing the Spadina line to curve under the airport lands and the diverging point might actually be between Finch West and Downsview Park stations.

Hooking up Sheppard to the Vaughan extension doesn't actually need lengthening of Sheppard stations! 4-car trains can run up to York U / Vaughan just fine.
As for the actual track connection, I just hope that the old tail-track area / TBM portal area is relatively accessible, and doesn't cause prohibitive curves, and that the connection could be made there.

 

[UD2]

Sheppard subway east, will go though 3 federal riding, 3 provincial riding, and 5 Toronto wards, that should be 11 politicians fighting tooth and nail to get it built. Not sure what's happening though.

Although one thing it won't happen is for it to end at Victoria Park. Imagine building a subway in north York that ends at the Scarbrough boarder.

 

[Hopkins123]

Sheppard subway east, will go though 3 federal riding, 3 provincial riding, and 5 Toronto wards, that should be 11 politicians fighting tooth and nail to get it built. Not sure what's happening though.

Although one thing it won't happen is for it to end at Victoria Park. Imagine building a subway in north York that ends at the Scarbrough boarder.

I bet Rob Ford's $4.2 billion 7-stop Sheppard subway extension to Scarborough Centre is looking mighty good in hindsight compared to the $4.2 billion 1-stop Bloor-Danforth subway extension to Scarborough Centre right about now.

 

[Rainforest]

I bet Rob Ford's $4.2 billion 7-stop Sheppard subway extension to Scarborough Centre is looking mighty good in hindsight compared to the $4.2 billion 1-stop Bloor-Danforth subway extension to Scarborough Centre right about now.

Sheppard subway would cost more than $4.2 billion in today's dollars, while carrying less riders than the Bloor-Danforth extension.

If one subway line must be extended into Scarborough, then the Bloor-Danforth extension makes most sense.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

If sheppard west does happen to downsview, many people would have stayed on if the line eventually ventured south but as the spadina extension has now been extended further west into Vaughan people will not stay on. Many times I had a choice when getting on dundas whether to go to yonge, transfer to go to St George and then transfer to go north on Spadina or go south at Dundas and go around the Union loop and avoid a transfer. The decision was which way would take longer taking into account the wait at Yonge and St George vs the few extra minutes to go around and no transfer. The time evened out and most of the times I chose to stay on and go around. I would have believed the same would have happened for the sheppard line if it went west to downsview and then south and of course hits St Andrews and Union. People would not need to worry about getting on the Yonge line and the crowds

What you should have done is walk to University and get on at St Patrick station.