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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Is any of this stuff actually going to be built? Since the first RT replacement study in 2006, all that's been produced is lots of reports and hot air. Meanwhile during the same period:

Edmonton's metro line was designed and built

There's been numerous ctrain extensions

Vancouver designed and built the evergreen extension

Winnepeg built the Southwest transitway

KW designed and built ION (pitty about the trains)

Ottawa designed and cancelled it's south LRT plan, demolished the transitway, and built the soon to open confederation line.
 
Kyle Campbell said:
Is any of this stuff actually going to be built? Since the first RT replacement study in 2006, all that's been produced is lots of reports and hot air. Meanwhile during the same period:

Edmonton's metro line was designed and built

There's been numerous ctrain extensions

Vancouver designed and built the evergreen extension

Winnepeg built the Southwest transitway

KW designed and built ION (pitty about the trains)

Ottawa designed and cancelled it's south LRT plan, demolished the transitway, and built the soon to open confederation line.
Click to expand...
This is Toronto we're talking about, where we propose, study, then rinse and repeat over and over again until the sun dont shine until someone finally musters up the cojones to do something about it.

Unfortunately in this city we've lacked proper leadership for years to actually spearhead construction of the SRT's replacement, and that's what has been holding any progress being made.

This latest 1-stop delusional proposal is just another example of something that's just wasting all of our time.
 
Kyle Campbell said:
Is any of this stuff actually going to be built? Since the first RT replacement study in 2006, all that's been produced is lots of reports and hot air. Meanwhile during the same period:

Edmonton's metro line was designed and built

There's been numerous ctrain extensions

Vancouver designed and built the evergreen extension

Winnepeg built the Southwest transitway

KW designed and built ION (pitty about the trains)

Ottawa designed and cancelled it's south LRT plan, demolished the transitway, and built the soon to open confederation line.
Click to expand...

During that period, Toronto built TYSSE, and a lot of progress has been made on the Crosstown construction. Not too bad, in comparison with all the above cities.

SSE / SRT replacement is trailing indeed, but design work is underway right now, and the project should be completed in 8-10 years.
 
syn said:
Based on what?

Virtually every poll on a subway vs LRT came out roughly 50/50. I'd also suggest that no one dislikes the idea of a subway extension. Do they like a one stop subway extension if it means scrapping the RT at a huge cost?

At a public meeting a year ago, people were very clearly frustrated with the one stop plan.

I seriously question how many people realize that the SSE means the RT is being eliminated. There seem to be a significant number of people who don't realize the SSE isn't supplementing the RT, it's completely replacing it. John Tory certainly doesn't mention it at all his photo ops in front of the RT touting the new extension. In fact, he outright lied to a citizen who questioned what would happen to the existing RT stops:

Brenda Thompson, of the group Scarborough Transit Action — an offshoot of TTC Riders, grilled the mayor about the project's costs, and called on him to go back to a light rail plan that would have featured several stops.
"What about the station at Ellesmere? What about the station at Centennial College?" Thompson asked the mayor, who replied that those stops would eventually be covered by SmartTrack or other options.

"There are going to be more new transit stations in Scarborough when this is finished," Tory said.

This all speaks to two unfortunate realities - politicians are not being honest about this extension (no surprise), but there's also a lack of engagement by the local population.
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The article you quoted literally mentions 2 people complaining about the extension, and both of them live near the Lawrence east stop.

Maybe people don't know that the SSE is a replacement, and if that's the case, it's their loss. People are allowed to choose to remain ignorant and have an opinion. It's frustrating and extremely counterintuitive, yes, but it's the price we pay for living in a democracy. Again, if RER lives up to its name, I don't see why people would be upset with a smart track station instead of a subway station. Personally I'd prefer the subway station since it gives more flexibility and reduces the number of buses going into the STC, but to each their own.

No one gets on at Ellesmere so that's really a moot point. Sure, it's an example of a politician lying, but again, what else is news?

Extending the RT to CC, while would be easier for those taking transit from anywhere in the city outside of the RT corridor, doesn't really help them at all. Since most people going there are coming from other areas of Scarborough, they're likely to bus there directly instead of take a bus to the RT, then take the RT to CC. The distance is about 3 km, so with a stop at McCowan, and other stops at Bellamy and Markham road, the trip would probably total something like 8 minutes from the STC to campus, plus getting to the platform, waiting for the train, then getting into Centennial college. In total, you're looking at close to 15-18 minutes of travel time from the STC to Centennial college (10-13 minutes if you're using the existing RT). Since the bus takes 15-18 minutes with a walk onto campus, what's the point?
 
Rainforest said:
During that period, Toronto built TYSSE, and a lot of progress has been made on the Crosstown construction. Not too bad, in comparison with all the above cities.

SSE / SRT replacement is trailing indeed, but design work is underway right now, and the project should be completed in 8-10 years.
Click to expand...

Yes, but most of the above projects were designed and built in a period of 4-6 years, Toronto seems to take at least a decade. Yes, all of those are not heavy rail, but several of them include long tunnels and underground stations.

Smart Track was sold as super easy, just slap down some stations on existing rail lines and up the frequency, and so far it too is still vaporware
 
Streety McCarface said:
The article you quoted literally mentions 2 people complaining about the extension, and both of them live near the Lawrence east stop.

Maybe people don't know that the SSE is a replacement, and if that's the case, it's their loss. People are allowed to choose to remain ignorant and have an opinion. It's frustrating and extremely counterintuitive, yes, but it's the price we pay for living in a democracy. Again, if RER lives up to its name, I don't see why people would be upset with a smart track station instead of a subway station. Personally I'd prefer the subway station since it gives more flexibility and reduces the number of buses going into the STC, but to each their own.

No one gets on at Ellesmere so that's really a moot point. Sure, it's an example of a politician lying, but again, what else is news?
Click to expand...

The article is obviously not going to quote every single person that has a problem with the RT being removed. It's not like that they do that for subway supporters either - that's why I cited actual polls.

It's certainly more valuable than Tory telling us a guy he talked to who said it will make his trip 30 mins faster.

In any case, an uninformed group of citizens and politicians consistently lying about the entire thing is going to lead to more complaining after the thing is done. Years of time and billions of dollars, only to have people complaining they have less stops and want more.

I wish this entire thing was being done properly.

Streety McCarface said:
Extending the RT to CC, while would be easier for those taking transit from anywhere in the city outside of the RT corridor, doesn't really help them at all. Since most people going there are coming from other areas of Scarborough, they're likely to bus there directly instead of take a bus to the RT, then take the RT to CC. The distance is about 3 km, so with a stop at McCowan, and other stops at Bellamy and Markham road, the trip would probably total something like 8 minutes from the STC to campus, plus getting to the platform, waiting for the train, then getting into Centennial college. In total, you're looking at close to 15-18 minutes of travel time from the STC to Centennial college (10-13 minutes if you're using the existing RT). Since the bus takes 15-18 minutes with a walk onto campus, what's the point?
Click to expand...

How does the SSE extension alter this scenario in any meaningful way?
 
syn said:
The article is obviously not going to quote every single person that has a problem with the RT being removed. It's not like that they do that for subway supporters either - that's why I cited actual polls.

It's certainly more valuable than Tory telling us a guy he talked to who said it will make his trip 30 mins faster.

In any case, an uninformed group of citizens and politicians consistently lying about the entire thing is going to lead to more complaining after the thing is done. Years of time and billions of dollars, only to have people complaining they have less stops and want more.

I wish this entire thing was being done properly.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying, and I agree. However, realistically politicians lie, and it says more about the populous and their unwillingness to seek out facts. We also expect criticism from every project. Take the TYSSE, people complain about the construction of Downsview Park and HWY 407 (and rightfully so), but they only do so after the damn thing is built. Expecting SSE criticism after it's built is fair, but I don't think it'll be any worse than the criticism other large scale public works projects get.

syn said:
How does the SSE extension alter this scenario in any meaningful way?
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It doesn't, but the point is that an expanded RT wouldn't help the majority of students either. Centennial college is just in a bad location for transit (though a great location for cars).
 
Streety McCarface said:
I see what you're saying, and I agree. However, realistically politicians lie, and it says more about the populous and their unwillingness to seek out facts. We also expect criticism from every project. Take the TYSSE, people complain about the construction of Downsview Park and HWY 407 (and rightfully so), but they only do so after the damn thing is built. Expecting SSE criticism after it's built is fair, but I don't think it'll be any worse than the criticism other large scale public works projects get.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't it be?

For the other projects, rapid transit stops weren't removed to implement them.

There are already people wondering why it's only one stop, why they don't get more, etc. As long as it's an exercise in identity politics, people will always want more.


Streety McCarface said:
It doesn't, but the point is that an expanded RT wouldn't help the majority of students either. Centennial college is just in a bad location for transit (though a great location for cars).
Click to expand...

Right.

So we can save roughly $5 billion and achieve the same result.

I wonder when Tory will decide the rest of us get to know what the updated cost is.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
Whatever happened to the plan to make this one-stop extension a three-stop extension? I haven't heard a word about it since Election Day.
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Have to wait for the 2019 budget
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Whatever happened to the plan to make this one-stop extension a three-stop extension? I haven't heard a word about it since Election Day.
Click to expand...

I think Ford will follow through on this one. It seems like a great way to kick the bulk of funding out of his 2nd term and into the next Premiers budgets.
 
rbt said:
I think Ford will follow through on this one. It seems like a great way to kick the bulk of funding out of his 2nd term and into the next Premiers budgets.
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My guess is that he'll partially follow-through. I'd be surprised if we don't get a station at Lawrence, but also fairly surprised if going up to Sheppard isn't treated as an extension, which will get an EA, and plans to build later but no follow-through.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
My guess is that he'll partially follow-through. I'd be surprised if we don't get a station at Lawrence, but also fairly surprised if going up to Sheppard isn't treated as an extension, which will get an EA, and plans to build later but no follow-through.
Click to expand...

If he wants to buy votes, extending it to Sheppard would get him those votes.
 
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