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TTC: Scarborough Subway Extension (formerly LRT replacement) (City of Toronto, Design Phase)

syn

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"The Scarborough Subway Extension project (“SSE”) project is a fully underground extension of Toronto’s ‘Bloor-Danforth’ subway Line 2, from the existing terminal at Kennedy Station northeast to Sheppard Avenue and McCowan Road, spanning approximately 7.8 kilometres."

I guess this means they have absolutely no intention of exploring any above ground options?
 

Coolstar

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Duh. Too much extra work, and we all knew they were full of crap. Let's just get the current plan with shovels in the ground soon.
I still think either rebuilding the RT or converting to LRT was a far better idea at a cheaper cost than this. But we're too far down to go back. At least the 3 stop proposal is better than the 1 stop proposal.
 

sixrings

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I still think either rebuilding the RT or converting to LRT was a far better idea at a cheaper cost than this. But we're too far down to go back. At least the 3 stop proposal is better than the 1 stop proposal.
Just waiting for the covid-19 excuses to come out. I'll believe this when I see it.
 

robmausser

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I still think either rebuilding the RT or converting to LRT was a far better idea at a cheaper cost than this. But we're too far down to go back. At least the 3 stop proposal is better than the 1 stop proposal.

Rebuilding, modernizing and extending the RT to Malvern TC was the best option, and was approved and outlined by the TTC way back in 2006. Oh well.
 

Streety McCarface

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Ah because in Europe where these projects cost a fraction what they do here they don't have accessibility requirements, or fire codes . . .
They don't necessarily cost a fraction of what they cost here. For example, They're cheap in SOME European cities because you don't have to deal with deep building foundations, and your soils are oftentimes more optimal. Paris has almost no buildings above 10 stories for a city its size, meaning it's a lot easier building tunnels there than it is in London, where subway costs are about the same as North America, maybe even more expensive. Berlin, Vienna, Munich, Hannover, Madrid, among so many other European cities all follow this type of building design.
 

CityStay

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You reach a point where you just don't care any more, just do SOMETHING!
It may suck, it may be way too expensive, it may not serve much of a useful purpose but, after 15 years (this thread) who cares?
Something finally happened!!
And then we can all boast on the internet that line 2 has been extended and Toronto has ___ kms of new subway woo hoo!
Forward thinking, transit oriented city.
Bravo!
 

CapitalSeven

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I'm not going to stop hating this project, but I try to hold my tongue. Demolishing a viable, existing line, which can easily be adapted to carry the needed loads, to build a new tunnelled one requiring a huge amount of concrete to build and a lot more energy to run means that it will never have anything but a strongly negative impact on global warming, not to mention that it will never "pay for itself" in any way. There is no business case for it, just a political case.
 

Streety McCarface

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I'm not going to stop hating this project, but I try to hold my tongue. Demolishing a viable, existing line, which can easily be adapted to carry the needed loads, to build a new tunnelled one requiring a huge amount of concrete to build and a lot more energy to run means that it will never have anything but a strongly negative impact on global warming, not to mention that it will never "pay for itself" in any way. There is no business case for it, just a political case.
100K people using it initially, to 130-150K people using it daily in 20 years is close to the number of cars that traverse the DVP daily. For context, an approximate amount of GHGs that are released from cars using the DVP daily is 130T of CO_2 per day or 40kT annually

For the tunnels, you're looking at 250K cubic meters of concrete, and for the stations, it's much harder to say, so I'll estimate 10K cubic meters per station (Some stations with crossovers require more, others require less). For the entire extension, you're looking at 280 cubic meters of concrete or 115kT of released CO_2 for the concrete over the subway's lifespan (100 years at least)

Obviously, construction equipment and other items will emit some GHGs, but in this context, underground subway construction is almost always more environmentally sustainable than driving or using the bus for that matter.
 

CapitalSeven

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Sure, if the subway were replacing cars and buses. It's not. It's replacing an existing line that does not require lighting and ventilation, and whose vehicles do not run mostly empty.
 
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Rainforest

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The subway reaching Sheppard, is certainly replacing quite a few combined bus hours every day. Buses from the north of 401 will have shorter routes, and won't idle in the traffic jams on the 401 bridges / underpasses.

Some car trips will be replaced as well (easier to take a short bus ride and arrive to the subway terminus), and some other car trips will be shortened for the same reason as the bus trips.
 

north-of-anything

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It's a bit of a shame they can't extend it into Malvern, but make Scarborough Centre the new western terminus or something like that. Waste of a corridor.

On the bright side, this might lead to more intensification around McCowan Road...
 

pman

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To NOA’s second point above. It’s remarkable that so many people in Toronto support building staggeringly expensive high-capacity tunnelled heavy rail transit in low-density locations, while opposing building the same type of infrastructure in neighbourhoods that are already dense and nowhere near higher order transit. It seems like a misallocation of scarce resources, though on the bright side Toronto builds so little transit infrastructure that the waste is minimized.
 

Rainforest

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To NOA’s second point above. It’s remarkable that so many people in Toronto support building staggeringly expensive high-capacity tunnelled heavy rail transit in low-density locations, while opposing building the same type of infrastructure in neighbourhoods that are already dense and nowhere near higher order transit. It seems like a misallocation of scarce resources, though on the bright side Toronto builds so little transit infrastructure that the waste is minimized.

Noone opposes building subways in the dense neighborhoods. If the government proposes a subway, it is normally supported by the locals.

What's really remarkable is the amount of attention subway opponents pay to the Scarborough project, running in the 3-rd busiest potential subway corridor in GTA (after the Relief Line and Yonge North). Yes, low-density, but it will have a huge catchment area and will gain decent total ridership thanks to the feeder buses.

In contrast, hardly anyone complains about the tunneled Eglinton West, and hardly anyone complained about the tunneled northern section of TYSSE. For both, the ridership is a fraction of SSE's ridership, and yet all the complains are directed to SSE.
 

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