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TTC: Scarborough Subway Extension (formerly LRT replacement) (City of Toronto, Design Phase)

Coolstar

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Being from Scarborough I'm really happy for EELRT. I was always opposed to the Scarborough extension because the LRT does the same thing. I understand the lrt gets stuck in the winter but that couldve been rectified with different technologies.

What Scarborough needed was the Eglinton east lrt and the Sheppard extension from Don Mills east. All these politicians believe that Scarborough residents wanna head downtown, Scarborough has plenty of rapid transit downtown. What Scarborough needs is more rapid transit heading into North York or west
Once the EELRT AND EWLRT is built, people can get from the northeast corner of the city all the way to YYZ and become the longest subway/LRT line in the city.
 

Hopkins123

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Once the EELRT AND EWLRT is built, people can get from the northeast corner of the city all the way to YYZ and become the longest subway/LRT line in the city.
It'll probably be the longest LRT line in the world. Lol!

We're talking like over 60 kilometres here.
 

JSF-1

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It'll probably be the longest LRT line in the world. Lol!

We're talking like over 60 kilometres here.
It would be the 2nd longest Rapid Transit line in North America only behind New Yorks A Train. It should be noted that outside of the overnight service no train runs local the entire length of the A Train. Each of the 3 services runs express over some portion of the line to speed up service. Now keep in mind the A Train is a fully grade seperated subway, and still NYC won't operate that line as one single local service. So I find the possibility of a complete EC from Malvern to Pearson running as a single local service with the on street portion being present to be insane. If NYC won't run its longest line local even when its fully grade seprated why would we even attempt to do the same with a similarly run line that isn't entirely grade separate.
 

Hopkins123

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It would be the 2nd longest Rapid Transit line in North America only behind New Yorks A Train. It should be noted that outside of the overnight service no train runs local the entire length of the A Train. Each of the 3 services runs express over some portion of the line to speed up service. Now keep in mind the A Train is a fully grade seperated subway, and still NYC won't operate that line as one single local service. So I find the possibility of a complete EC from Malvern to Pearson running as a single local service with the on street portion being present to be insane. If NYC won't run its longest line local even when its fully grade seprated why would we even attempt to do the same with a similarly run line that isn't entirely grade separate.
True. Just like how we split up the 501 at Humber Loop and the 504 at Dufferin and Distillery Loops respectively; they may operate one branch from Pearson to Kennedy and another from Malvern TC to Mount Dennis. Although after 9pm with lesser frequencies it may make more sense to operate a single route full length as not to inconvenience riders too much.
 

MisterF

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Calling the Crosstown rapid transit in the same sense as any line on the New York subway is a bit misleading. The NY subway doesn't stop at red lights. I get that the term "rapid transit" is used in a lot of different ways, but the surface part of the Crosstown is nothing like a real metro.

LoL. Only on UT would this be a fantasy

We just had a Downtown Councillor running the bulk of his far away ward campaign on stopping the Scarborough subway. Somehow this is healthy rhetoric and normal to some here? Its pretty damn extreme to me, and some worse politicians became more problematic fighting against a better solution once the previous plan was called out.

Thankfully its been dealt with and there is no longer any substance to the noise and the City can move forward. And Councillors can constitute pimp out their far away ward voters on useless division creating fantasies if they so choose. As pathetic as it is.
Shutting down a 34 year old rapid transit line in a low demand area and replacing it with an underground subway was a dumb idea in the first place, so yes that rhetoric seems fairly reasonable to me. Meanwhile the DRL, planned in the highest demand area, got replaced by a lower capacity line for no good reason. Anyone who looks at that and concludes that Scarborough is being mistreated is living in a fantasy world.
 

Coolstar

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It'll probably be the longest LRT line in the world. Lol!

We're talking like over 60 kilometres here.
Not even close. There's Los Angeles Gold Line at over 50km and St Louis Red Line at 61km. The Crosstown at its total length is around 47km
 

Coolstar

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It would be the 2nd longest Rapid Transit line in North America only behind New Yorks A Train. It should be noted that outside of the overnight service no train runs local the entire length of the A Train. Each of the 3 services runs express over some portion of the line to speed up service. Now keep in mind the A Train is a fully grade seperated subway, and still NYC won't operate that line as one single local service. So I find the possibility of a complete EC from Malvern to Pearson running as a single local service with the on street portion being present to be insane. If NYC won't run its longest line local even when its fully grade seprated why would we even attempt to do the same with a similarly run line that isn't entirely grade separate.
Not really. Pretty much of all the Washington Metro and BART lines are longer than this.
 

OneCity

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Calling the Crosstown rapid transit in the same sense as any line on the New York subway is a bit misleading. The NY subway doesn't stop at red lights. I get that the term "rapid transit" is used in a lot of different ways, but the surface part of the Crosstown is nothing like a real metro.


Shutting down a 34 year old rapid transit line in a low demand area and replacing it with an underground subway was a dumb idea in the first place, so yes that rhetoric seems fairly reasonable to me. Meanwhile the DRL, planned in the highest demand area, got replaced by a lower capacity line for no good reason. Anyone who looks at that and concludes that Scarborough is being mistreated is living in a fantasy world.


I conclude the City received the political leaders it deserved the past decade from this exact over the top rhetoric and Scarborough will now receive the connected central transit it deserves after enduring 34 years of one of the most poorly designed transit lines around. And will receive a far better integrated overall network then with the out of place RT and nonsense of half hearted Transit City LRT plan.

The subway didn't have to be so costly but the outside opposition was always too extreme to work with those bringing the glaring issues to the surface to be addressed. Doesn't matter now as the current line will provide maximum positive impact over any alternative to address all the existing issues of accessible stop locations, central feeder locations, eliminating the unreasonable transfer point and providing a better future for the Centre connected to the Citys main backbone
 
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JSF-1

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I conclude the City received the political leaders it deserved the past decade from this exact over the top rhetoric and Scarborough will now receive the connected central transit it deserves after enduring 34 years of one of the most poorly designed transit lines around. And will receive a far better integrated overall network then with the out of place RT and nonsense of half hearted Transit City LRT plan.

The subway didn't have to be so costly but the outside opposition was always too extreme to work with those bringing the glaring issues to the surface to be addressed. Doesn't matter now as the current line will provide maximum positive impact over any alternative to address all the existing issues of accessible stop locations, central feeder locations, eliminating the unreasonable transfer point and providing a better future for the Centre connected to the Citys main backbone
The SSE was doomed to be an expensive boondoggle the minute they decided it had to be 100% underground and that it had to run under McCowan, thus requiring the line to be stupidly deep to cross the Highland Creek valley at Lawrence (also exploding the cost for a station at that intersection as well). Even after Metrolinx recently looked at possibly bringing part of the extension to the surface, one Councillor out here started chirping about how he and his residence wouldn't like it. Even with everything in place we are still insisting on having our cake and eating it too.
 

syn

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It must be great being a councilor in Scarborough. You don't have to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong - just blame on 'dowtown'. It's too bad a lot of Scarborough residents can't hold their own councilors responsible for the state of their area, including the lack of transit. Scarborough's problems are largely the result of decisions made by Scarborough politicians over the course of decades.

Hopefully Scarborough councilors will be honest with the constituents and what will be necessary is they want a subway in a low density suburb.
 

OneCity

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The SSE was doomed to be an expensive boondoggle the minute they decided it had to be 100% underground and that it had to run under McCowan, thus requiring the line to be stupidly deep to cross the Highland Creek valley at Lawrence (also exploding the cost for a station at that intersection as well). Even after Metrolinx recently looked at possibly bringing part of the extension to the surface, one Councillor out here started chirping about how he and his residence wouldn't like it. Even with everything in place we are still insisting on having our cake and eating it too.
Rob Ford agreed to connect the Crosstown underground then above ground seamless on old RT alignment. Council rejected. Tory did a cost analysis of the RT corridor BDL and it wasn't that much savings. Although It would have been a good compromise in my view. I believe the Conservative are reviewing how the Lawrence stop is designed but we'll see if they can find any solutions that will save significant dollars.

Also that Councillor 'chirping' resided in Scarborough and supported constitutions with first hand experience suffering with the issues as the above ground RT line has been nothing short of a disaster in the winter. Im not saying the LRT or subway above ground would have the same issue, but i completely get the reasoning after decades of nonsense. Underground removes this concern completely, hardly unreasonable to many people actually using transit here. Yet, most politicians chirping against this all have underground transit stops in their far away, out of touch wards.
 
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pstogios

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It must be great being a councillor in Scarborough. You don't have to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong - just blame on 'dowtown'. It's too bad a lot of Scarborough residents can't hold their own councillors responsible for the state of their area, including the lack of transit. Scarborough's problems are largely the result of decisions made by Scarborough politicians over the course of decades.
Exactly.

It must be pretty awesome being a Scarborough councillor that represents residents that are so totally out to lunch that they can be fooled by pretty much anything you tell them.

Just imagine. Scarborough has residents like coffey1 that believe that just because it is large in area, but not in population or in population density, then it “deserves” the same level of transit infrastructure as areas of downtown with triple the population in a smaller area. He chose to live in an area with less transit, as appropriate for its density and historical population and built form, and now he bitches about his commute.

It’s like saying Caledon (population 66592, 688 square km in area) “deserves” the same level of transit infrastructure and investment as Mississauga (population 721599, 292 square km in area). And then make up some bullshit conspiracy that Mississauga politicians, residents AND the media are ALL out “to get” Caledonians. That’s Trump level psychosis.

Don’t live in Caledon and then bitch about transit.

The degree of delusion is mind-blowing.

No wonder Mississauga wants to separate from Peel Region... I say Scarborough should separate from Toronto and leave the rest of us alone.
 
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Hopkins123

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It must be great being a councilor in Scarborough. You don't have to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong - just blame on 'dowtown'. It's too bad a lot of Scarborough residents can't hold their own councilors responsible for the state of their area, including the lack of transit. Scarborough's problems are largely the result of decisions made by Scarborough politicians over the course of decades.

Hopefully Scarborough councilors will be honest with the constituents and what will be necessary is they want a subway in a low density suburb.
Yes, because close to 700,000 residents is so low density. :rolleyes: Funny @pstogios mentions Caledon, you two must presume there's like 2 people/km2 out there.

Look, Old Toronto is also 700,000 residents. Just because it's a smaller surface area doesn't mean it's any more deserving of a subway. One line out to eastern limits would actually benefit not just Scarborough, but Markham and Pickering as well - that's over a million people; same way subways downtown benefit the surrounding suburbs as well. Kennedy and Eglinton just doesn't provide enough coverage to make a dent inwards into the East End to help many. This is why Malvern, Mornigside Heights, West Hill and Port Union are still an hour from the nearest rapid transit.

A subway to McCowan and Sheppard cuts all those travel times in half, it's a sound investment. FFS, please let this be the last election cycle we're even still debating this garbage. We ought to be more like Montreal in this regard where like 5 subway/premetro projects are under the works as we speak.
 

JSF-1

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Rob Ford agreed to connect the Crosstown underground then above ground seamless on old RT alignment. Council rejected. Tory did a cost analysis of the RT corridor BDL and it wasnt that much savings. Although It would have been a good compromise in my view. I believe the Conservative are reviewing how the Lawrence stop is designed but we'll see if they can find any solutions that will save significant dollars.

Also that Councillor 'chirping' resided in Scarborough and supported constitutions with first hand experience suffering with the issues with the above ground RT line has been nothing short of a disaster in the winter. Im not saying the LRT or subway wouldn't above ground would have the same issue, but i completely get the reasoning after decades of nonsense. Underground removes this concern completely, hardly unreasonable to many people actually using transit here. Yet, most politicians chirping agaisnt this all have underground transit stops in their far away, out of touch wards.
Most of those same residence already take the Bloor-Danforth to work and on there commute they will pass through the above ground section between Warden and Victoria Park. They know what an above ground subway is, and to compare that to the RT is both disingenuous and makes it sound like those people are idiots who can't tell the difference between the RT and the Subway. The fact is Scarborough has had an above ground subway for 51 years, we know what it is, we know how it works, the chirping from that one Scarborough Councillor is nothing more than feeding the everything must be underground BS.
 

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