Allandale25
Senior Member
Cool, thanks.
|
|
|
Cool, thanks.
OneCity
Senior Member
A main issue I have is whether you agree with the cancellation of Transit City or not the aftermath has been marred in decisions the Fords never controlled in any way and thats not what we're often told by the anti Con media and the anti Con/Ford posters here on UT. Doug and the conservatives now actually do have control and full control at that so Id much rather judge based on the line they put forth and attempt to deliver. This line seems to be moving in a far better direction then with all the other previous participants.
The Provincial Liberal are a whole side story on its own if you want to dig deep into their internal political. Most in the party were always supportive of Scarborough subway with some very big supporters as well but no one wanted Ford to get all the credit. The Liberals also had small number of anti-Scarborough subway advocates to navigate thru.
In my view the Province knew Ford wouldn't win the initial vote on council but prepped the TTC chair when it was time for them to capitalize on it at the polls and they did. The silence since from all these Liberal "subway champs" as the collective City tore the line apart was very unfortunate and another easy win for the Conservatives under Ford or anyone leader.
Last edited:
sixrings
Senior Member
I don't want to hear excuses then in 2029 when we are still studying and or looking for financing.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Totally understand there were some very strong sitting Liberal MPPs (namely, Duguid) who supported the subway all along even while the the McGuinty-led government indicated they would provide 100% capital funding for the line (and several others). "Most of the party" seems like a bit of a subjective interpretation because there are so few (if any) public statements or articles that indicate there was dissension when McGuinty announced the funding on June 15, 2007 (along with funding for projects outside of Toronto). I also don't recall seeing any public indication from the pro-Liberal forces in April 2009 when the funding was reduced and the Malvern-Sheppard part was eliminated that they really wanted a subway instead of the LRT. I do agree that's what some of them probably wanted it's just hard for a general member of the public to be aware or independently asses the opinion of "most in the party". All parties may have members who think one region is getting more money than another, and here's a recent comment on that. Generally, I find it extremely rare that a MPP or party member will publicly indicate their dissent on something their party is doing. Duguid in particular probably felt he couldn't be quoted in the media because he was in cabinet.
So I'm just adding some nuance to the post where you mentioned "Rob agreed with the Province" and from earlier, "wasn't even a Ford chosen corridor."
OneCity
Senior Member
I get we can add in the all the missing meat to the story but my statements stand accurate the McCowan corridor was tabled solely by the Liberals at the stage they did. A Ford was not even involved in any meaningful discussion at that point and the agreement Rob had with Dalton was to extend the Crosstown to SCC and build the Sheppard subway. The dysfunctional City went on full display last term to destroy the line and the Liberals were completely mum.
Following the cancellation of Transit City a Ford had little to no power to what was tabled and how the line was destroyed. Against all over the top hysteria these Conservatives are the least of Scarborughs concern in regards to the subway line. The actions of many other Politicians have made Ford look even better then he should have on these lines. There was so much room for compromise at the very least and the strong desire by some agaisnt connecting Scarborough Centre with this upgrade and connecting to Sheppard has been shameful.
Last edited:
Allandale25
Senior Member
Just a couple of follow up questions because I wasn't paying attention as closely as others:
1. "my statements stand accurate the McCowan corridor was tabled solely by the Liberals at the stage they did " - sorry, which stage?
2. I'm a little confused - Ford wasn't involved in any meaningful discussions but there was an agreement between Rob and Dalton to extend the Crosstown, as LRT, from SCC to the Sheppard Subway? Why would Ford, after becoming Mayor, be okay with LRT as the technology to SCC when he was so passionate on day one for subways? The article I link to below suggests he publicly wanted a subway to the SCC, but maybe there was another intention/deal behind the scenes.
3. How are you defining "following the cancellation" of Transit City? Are you referring to the December 2, 2010 statement where he said Transit City was "over" (previously I may have quoted him as saying dead but the Star article says he said "over"). By "how the line was destroyed" did you mean "now the line was destroyed"?
I fully realize this is water under the bridge and almost 10 years old now. Completely respect people expressing their points of view just trying to better understand your view compared to what I remember from the timeline. Again, I wasn't having conversations with local Scarborough Liberals or any cabinet Minister or the Premier's office so happy to hear any any all opinion perspective on conversations others may have been involved in at the time. The great thing about some of these UT threads is it can be a living history document since it can be hard to go back and find all the articles from the various media outlets on how various events transpired.
Last edited:
sixrings
Senior Member
True but for some people's living history you need to search under coffey1...
BurlOak
Senior Member
You have a natural valley there. Just maintain the elevation of the track and it automatically becomes elevated over West Highland Creek (but still under Lawrence).
Allandale25
Senior Member
I don't get the reference to "coffey1". Could you elaborate?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
That was OneCity’s username prior to getting banned.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 7,410
- Reaction score
- 1,436
- Location
- Downtown Toronto, Ontario
It's a Tim Horton's special
Allandale25
Senior Member
Thanks for the update. I don't often visit this thread. Appears that there has been a lot of discussion here over the years...
robmausser
Senior Member
Something very important thats being omitted is along with the Transfer removal at the scarborough LRT, Rob Ford required the entire Crosstown LRT to be underground, at great expense.
Last edited:
rbt
Senior Member
Indeed. Also, Metrolinx's "ready to go ahead" meant they would split it into 2 independent projects going ahead on the first agreement and starting the EA on the eastern section. Below article is dated March 31st 2011, tendering for the Crosstown tunnel section was issued in early 2012 (awarded 2013).
Eglinton light-rail line to go underground after winning provincial funding
Ontario announces $8.4-billion for Eglinton crosstown light-rail line; city to foot bill for Sheppard subway expansion
www.theglobeandmail.com
The Eglinton line: It will run from Black Creek Drive to Kennedy Road, for a distance of about 25 kilometres, and will have up to 26 station stops. The line will be largely underground from Black Creek to Kennedy, then partially elevated from Kennedy to the Scarborough City Centre.
The project is ready to go ahead, according to Metrolinx, the GTA's transit authority.
Of course, the pieces the city would be responsible for in the above article (Finch, Sheppard) didn't even come close to getting funded. The plan was the credit card version of "free money".
Funding questions linger after new transit plan announced
Political rivals smiled and congratulated themselves Thursday morning over Toronto’s newest transit vision, while a storm gathered at City Hall over who wins…
nationalpost.com
Last edited:
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Good points to recall. I had forgot that in the time from when Miller released Transit City up until the Council voted against Ford to keep Eglinton surface that there had been some discussions or concepts of having the portion between Laird and Kennedy below ground or above ground. I googled "John Parker Don River and found some interesting articles". I don't think it necessarily changes what I said above about the timeline of Councillor to Mayor Ford, the Liberal government, and Ford's preference for the corridor. If only there was detailed and complete timeline available in one place or page. Update: I guess the Wikipedia entry does a decent job: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_5_Eglinton#Timeline