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TTC: Scarborough Subway Extension (formerly LRT replacement) (City of Toronto, Design Phase)

robmausser

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One of the problems with the SRT conversion was that it was meant to be compatible with Transit City - the same low floor LRVs that are now running in Waterloo Region. This was so it could share the same maintenance centre at Sheppard and Conlins Road as the Sheppard East LRT. The idea was poorly pitched all-around. If built correctly, (with the Malvern extension and a better terminal at Kennedy) it would have been a major improvement.

The LRT should have been planned as a high-floor system, reducing the work necessary to rebuild the SRT stations. It would have been quite distinct then from Transit City. You could then pitch it as a distinct, high-speed system, and could have called it a light metro to appease the blockheads. By virtue of running underground, the Eglinton-Crosstown LRT escaped the Fords' wrath and will open in two years or so.
If you make the SRT high platform LRTs and thus different technology than the rest of the LRT system you might as well save a billion dollars and just upgrade and refurbish the SRT with newer trains like they have in Vancouver, WHICH IS WHAT THE TTC SAID WAS THE BEST OPTION MORE THAN A DECADE AGO!

 

asher__jo

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If you make the SRT high platform LRTs and thus different technology than the rest of the LRT system you might as well save a billion dollars and just upgrade and refurbish the SRT with newer trains like they have in Vancouver, WHICH IS WHAT THE TTC SAID WAS THE BEST OPTION MORE THAN A DECADE AGO!

When the best option is the least exciting. This all really stems from the perception that transfers are some kind of horrible thing, heaven forbid you have to switch one train to get downtown.
 

TheTigerMaster

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If you make the SRT high platform LRTs and thus different technology than the rest of the LRT system you might as well save a billion dollars and just upgrade and refurbish the SRT with newer trains like they have in Vancouver, WHICH IS WHAT THE TTC SAID WAS THE BEST OPTION MORE THAN A DECADE AGO!

When the best option is the least exciting. This all really stems from the perception that transfers are some kind of horrible thing, heaven forbid you have to switch one train to get downtown.
Was there any analysis of refurbishing the SRT with new vehicles, while rearchitecting Kennedy Station to allow for a more seamless transfer?
 

crs1026

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I'm still waiting for any evidence that Ford is anything but stupid? It's ok to retract that comment. I won't think less of you. I'll think more of you.
Watched him in action back when he was a Councillor and I was attending the local Community Council. In politics, there are two possibilities - you are the organ grinder, or you are the monkey. Guess which one was Doug and which was Rob.

I would say he is far out of his depth at the Ontario level. There are many moving pieces that you can't just browbeat or attack into the right place.

Nasty? Yes. But stupid? Definitely not.

- Paul
 

BurlOak

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If you make the SRT high platform LRTs and thus different technology than the rest of the LRT system you might as well save a billion dollars and just upgrade and refurbish the SRT with newer trains like they have in Vancouver, WHICH IS WHAT THE TTC SAID WAS THE BEST OPTION MORE THAN A DECADE AGO!

Low platform is the orphan technology. We had (and still have) ZERO km of low floor LRT in Toronto. Subway, SkyTrain, streetcar. Seemed to be a good mix.
 

Bureaucromancer

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Was there any analysis of refurbishing the SRT with new vehicles, while rearchitecting Kennedy Station to allow for a more seamless transfer?
Yes. That was the reccomendation from the Soberman study done jsut before Transit City. It was the cheapest option, and likely remained as cheap or equivalent to light rail if extended to Sheppard/Progress but became more expensive than LRT with further expansion or if yard sharing became possible. Basically it had no advantages whatsoever as long as Transit City was active, and really doesn't have any now that Eglinton is finalized as LRT.

Once Ottawa is open the point really will be made that light metro and LRT are exactly the same thing given equivalent rights of way.
 

sixrings

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I guess I should be ok with my comments directed at OneCity being deleted. On the
Watched him in action back when he was a Councillor and I was attending the local Community Council. In politics, there are two possibilities - you are the organ grinder, or you are the monkey. Guess which one was Doug and which was Rob.

I would say he is far out of his depth at the Ontario level. There are many moving pieces that you can't just browbeat or attack into the right place.

Nasty? Yes. But stupid? Definitely not.

- Paul
I guess if the bar is Rob than Doug looks like a genius. However that is one low bar. On the other hand Rob had some sort of way of being significantly better with people. People actually believed he was a man of the people. People judge intelligence differently these days. I'm old school and like to check people's math, science and reading comprehension. All three things Doug I'm sure would be terrible at. There is a reason he never graduated. It wasn't because he was a genius like Bill Gates and was bored at school. On the other hand there is no doubt his social skills are far inferior than Robs and there is a good chance it will be proven when he doesn't get re elected. Rob even with DUI and a crack tape was likely to get re elected if it wasn't for cancer. This is my long winded way of saying I still believe he is dumb and simply got elected off of his last name.
 

Hopkins123

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The best option was the Glenn Murray circa 2013 plan in the readily available SRT corridor lands. No DumbTrack, no Transit Crappy, just an extension of the Bloor-Danforth that could've have made it's way all the way out to Malvern Town Centre in the shorter term. I'm not being partisan when I state this, I could care less that he was a Liberal proposing it. It just made common sense.
 

TheTigerMaster

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The best option was the Glenn Murray circa 2013 plan in the readily available SRT corridor lands. No DumbTrack, no Transit Crappy, just an extension of the Bloor-Danforth that could've have made it's way all the way out to Malvern Town Centre in the shorter term. I'm not being partisan when I state this, I could care less that he was a Liberal proposing it. It just made common sense.
If I recall correctly, that plan was no better thought out than Doug’s Ontario Line, and the pricing of the proposal ignored basic necessary infrastructure, such as additional train sets needed to accommodate its longer running length
 

OneCity

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Your cognitive dissonance continues to impress me.

If an NDP government took the same actions, you’d be screaming about some downtown lefty plot to cancel the subway.
Cut the crap.

There really is no need to paint a false picture and make chit up simply because you don't agree.

On this topic the provincial NDP had little transit direction and would have allowed the ridiculous 1 stop be built, the Liberals were the worst as they ran as "subway champions" and watched the subway ripped down to one stop without a peep.

So while ive said numerous times it sucks the subway is slightly delayed for both reasonable and political reasons under Ford Im overall more comfortable with the direction this line going and yes it will be built. Lets step back the line is being built for the better with stops unlike what we saw at council when it was under attack (from outside municipal NDP and a couple Liberals) and being torn apart. The real delays are from the refusal to connect the Centre from the start, and moreso the lunacy from many on council to fight against every connected option it when the issue was called out loudly in 2010 under "Transfer City" and backed up in the Metrlinx report that removing the transfer for LRT would also be beneficial.

Putting the over the top political hysteria aside the subway will actually be built and in a very good form. Maybe even a Brimley stop (Oh the horror) So sorry i simply cant share the anti-Ford transit hysteria after all the nonsense that went on with other parties. The best part is not one Provincial party ever overturn the improved line once it is finalized to move forward.
 
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ssiguy2

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If upgrading the SkyTrain is a no-go then why don't they just use RER? If RER is running up to York Region on the Stoufille line why don't they just increase the frequency to downtown but have every other train veer off the mainline and go to STC. It would save a few billion, could be easily built, and Scar would actually get a fast and no-transfer route to downtown which is what they want. What am I missing?
 

sixrings

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If upgrading the SkyTrain is a no-go then why don't they just use RER? If RER is running up to York Region on the Stoufille line why don't they just increase the frequency to downtown but have every other train veer off the mainline and go to STC. It would save a few billion, could be easily built, and Scar would actually get a fast and no-transfer route to downtown which is what they want. What am I missing?
RER to Scarborough town center wouldn't cost the same as a ttc fare. RER isn't known so it doesn't have the prestige of a subway to people in Scarborough. Damn it Scarborough deserves a subway.
 

Admiral Beez

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The fools are the Politicians which tried to replicate here and on Sheppard, and continue to propagate that we wont see the subway extended each time there is a change to fix the subway line created by councils collective dysfunction and Liberal games.

If it wasn't for these fools we likely wouldn't have a Ford capitalizing to fixing this mess and the subway would have been extended at least a decade ago much cheaper
Jesus wept, what the hell do these two run on sentences mean?



Please review the below and try again.

 
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