BurlOak
Senior Member
Would it be easier (cheaper, less disruptive) to eliminate the wye, and send a tunnel from Gerard to Greenwood yard?
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
- Thread starter JasonParis
- Start date
Neil
Active Member
It depends on how deep the stations are. Take Queen-Osgoode for example. If the new station is 2-3 levels below the University line, then an angled escalator would join up the stations pretty much centre to centre.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Was 3 stations ever proposed? Have both Osgoode and Queen be Bloor-Yonge style on the outside and have a City Hall Station.
Forgotten
Active Member
It is more than likely most disembarkers will be headed south once they leave the trains at these stations so which of the limited paths will they be forced to take? They have to go somewhere. Many Planning fans on here have said putting the stations at Queen as planned will create new pathways and spread out people in the PATH but on the contrary it looks like a disaster in the making. If an improved PATH is so important then having stations under Adelaide or Wellington is far superior to grafting things to the thin edges of the PATH but Planning wants what it wants.
Kitsune
Senior Member
Noticed they are also doing a Bloor-Yonge style interchange at the future Gerrard station / smarttrack station. Insane.
The Pape wye is certainly interesting. I guess it was easier to make the connection on the north side than on the south side. It's also seriously looking like the RL will be using Greenwood, which likely means a significant portion of BD's storage capacity will need to be shifted elsewhere (Obico?).
44 North
Senior Member
Certainly is interesting. Much broader than I thought, and connects northwards as opposed to southward. Looks like it only connects w/b Line 2 direct and will likely have a crossover for movements from e/b. Wouldn't that lead to similar problems we're seeing on U/S today.
Also can someone explain what looks like offset station boxes in these two pictures. Or is that merely implying an area of excavation?
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/img_3036-jpg.141136/
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/img_3037-jpg.141137/
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Sorry for not taking a picture of the legend, but I believe it means it will be excavated.
I think /// lines means excavated and XXX means staging area.
aquateam
Active Member
I think splitting this thread into Relief line South and North definitely has its merits, given that different agencies are designing the segments and that two distinct conversation threads (Bala sub and DMUs vers station placement) are going on right now.
Okay, accepting the existing alignment (which in itself isn't great) it seems like everything City Planning has done here is broken.
Okay, accepting the existing alignment (which in itself isn't great) it seems like everything City Planning has done here is broken.
- Two stations at NPH, 200 meters apart, is a joke. From there it's 900 meters to Sherbourne.
- Every single transfer (Queen, Osgoode, Gerard Square, Pape) is as awkward as possible.
- Why on earth wouldn't Pape station have an entrance on Danforth Avenue?
- The wye is goofy and seems to be designed to maximize the time spent moving trains. If the wye was south of Bloor, which is how it would make sense to build this, that would allow direct Danforth to downtown trains.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Attachments
Thread split as requested!
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Couple of comments.
1. This is actually significantly longer than I expected, the tail tracks run to John Street and north of Mortimer. It means it's actually around 7.5km of tunneling, even if only around 6.5km of it is in service. Makes the high price tag a bit more understandable. Just a bit.
2. The plan for the TTC is to construct a new yard at Obico as a part of the Line 2 ATC project to accommodate increased service on line 2 and the trains needed for the Scarborough Subway. And yes, Greenwood will then become the DRL yard. ATC and the new yard is about a $1.5 billion project IIRC, and is currently only partly funded from SOGR from my understanding.
3. The wye on the north side of Bloor likely is to accommodate the DRL north phases - once the DRL north is constructed most trains will enter and exit service from the north, not the south.
4. I echo the comments about the two downtown stations. Queen needs to be moved east to at least have some level of overlap with the Yonge line, and Osgoode should be moved to the west to more so serve the Entertainment district.
1. This is actually significantly longer than I expected, the tail tracks run to John Street and north of Mortimer. It means it's actually around 7.5km of tunneling, even if only around 6.5km of it is in service. Makes the high price tag a bit more understandable. Just a bit.
2. The plan for the TTC is to construct a new yard at Obico as a part of the Line 2 ATC project to accommodate increased service on line 2 and the trains needed for the Scarborough Subway. And yes, Greenwood will then become the DRL yard. ATC and the new yard is about a $1.5 billion project IIRC, and is currently only partly funded from SOGR from my understanding.
3. The wye on the north side of Bloor likely is to accommodate the DRL north phases - once the DRL north is constructed most trains will enter and exit service from the north, not the south.
4. I echo the comments about the two downtown stations. Queen needs to be moved east to at least have some level of overlap with the Yonge line, and Osgoode should be moved to the west to more so serve the Entertainment district.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
A word of caution: The DRL costs were reported at $6.8 Billion, however that was measured in year-of-expenditure. In other words, that's how many individual dollars will be spent several years from now, when a dollar will be worth less than it is today. In $2016, the costs are $4.8 Billion, which seems fairly reasonable for a 7.5 km subway line running through downtown Toronto with three interchange stations.
Yes, this seems to be the most logical setup.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Even $4.8 billion is $640 million / kilometre. Quite expensive by global standards at roughly $500m/km USD, though not exactly NYC levels expensive.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The planners have no reason to not be looking for an optimal solution, so I have to wonder to what degree these station designs are due to geological or other engineering concerns.
Yonge Station: The station box is quite a bit west of Queen Station. This suggest to me that utilities, PATH, or some other obstruction has forced this configuration
University Station: This station seems to have been placed so that the free space in front of Osgoode hall can be utilized for easier construction. I'd rather it be on the west side of University, but there is an office tower there that might be making that very difficult.
Pape: This arrangement is very similar to B-Y Station (bad!). The optimal arrangement would have the south end of the platform be south of Danforth. Again, I have to wonder to what degree this has been influenced by geography other other engineering constrains. I would like to hear the rational of the engineers and planners.