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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

EastYorkTTCFan

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The TTC has turned into a homeless shelter/CAMH on wheels. Every time I take the subway, there is at least one homeless person lying down across a set of seats. Every other time I get asked for money. Then there are the piss soaked seats...
It's not really something that they can just take care of like people seem to think they can. People wander into the subway through bus bays at sations and it isn't just homeless people. They try to do something about but people complain about them or the city as targeting them and it's unfair to do that.
I'm surprised that GO doesn't have this problem despite it being Proof of Payment. On most of the midday trips I took last week, I had the entire upper level to myself.
Probably because there aren't as many go train stations for people to board. That could probably change with the extra stations that Metrolinx is adding in Toronto to "regonalize" the system.
Many people will leave the TTC without complaining. They have other choices, GO, bike, car, Zoom.
Go isn't really as much of an alternative as people seem to think it is unless you live on one of the line that sees a lot of service in Toronto. Again I don't think that adding additional stations and trains on the existing go line is going to change how people commute in Toronto.

Zoom and other car share companies who dump cars on the street are only good for people who have a driver's license and according to statistics fewer people in Toronto have them then in the past.

The amount of people who leave the TTC for other forms of transit are a very small group and it isn't as much of a factor as they want it to be.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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The cost is 12-15M per station for those stations that are not PED-ready by design.

The total cost is in the range of 1B system-wide, which is not chump change, but spread over a realistic time-frame of 1-15 years is less than 100M per year; against a City of Toronto overall budget of 16B per year.
I agree with you it is a funding issue and it's not a priority right now no matter how much people want it to be. Maybe in a few years when they have finished with elevators in every sation they will look at it as something that they are going to to add. Probably starting with whatever stations that they don't have to do as much work on.
The U.S. is not a suitable comparator. It has exactly one city with public transit that rivals Toronto (NYC), outside of New York and there it is largely deemed a service for the poor, or perhaps tourists (a toy trolley).
I highly disagree with that there are many cities in the US that have good public transportation. Yes New York needs work and that is why Andy Byford left to go to transport for London because he couldn't get them to commit to the work that needs to be done.
There is no reason not to compare Toronto to Singapore or Paris, or London etc etc.
London only has part of one tube line and the Elizabeth lines underground sations that have platform edge doors yet people talk as if its the whole system. I can't say anything about Paris or Singapore as I'm not as familiar with them.
This is fixable
Yes it is but it's at a cost and something that they would need to retrofit the entire network for power feeds which is not something that they have plans for. If you noticed when they ran the shuttle train between Lawrence west and Wilson there was no one working during the day just the equipment sitting outside so that they don't have to move it back to the yard when the line was closed.
 

littlewill1166

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It's not really something that they can just take care of like people seem to think they can. People wander into the subway through bus bays at sations and it isn't just homeless people. They try to do something about but people complain about them or the city as targeting them and it's unfair to do that.

Probably because there aren't as many go train stations for people to board. That could probably change with the extra stations that Metrolinx is adding in Toronto to "regonalize" the system.

Go isn't really as much of an alternative as people seem to think it is unless you live on one of the line that sees a lot of service in Toronto. Again I don't think that adding additional stations and trains on the existing go line is going to change how people commute in Toronto.

Zoom and other car share companies who dump cars on the street are only good for people who have a driver's license and according to statistics fewer people in Toronto have them then in the past.

The amount of people who leave the TTC for other forms of transit are a very small group and it isn't as much of a factor as they want it to be.
All the GO lines except for the Milton and Richmond Hill lines effectively have at least hourly service now. Pre COVID, the Toronto area stations has the highest ridership growth across the GO network following frequency improvements blog.metrolinx.com/2020/02/13/go-transit-ridership-map-updated-find-out-how-your-station-or-lines-are-doing/. No, it doesn't work for everyone. But if you need to go further out during rush hour, it helps you avoid a lot of the congestion and riff raff on the subway. I think you'd be surprised if you took GO from Union to Kipling now that the new transit hub is open. People can now go straight from GO to MiWay avoiding the TTC.

By Zoom, I meant video conferencing/work/learn from home. More people are working from home than before the pandemic. The City of Toronto has adopted a permanent hybrid work model for certain employees. Schools are also offering more online learning opportunities to students. If people had a choice between travelling on the TTC in the state that it's in, or staying home, many would choose the latter.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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I think you'd be surprised if you took GO from Union to Kipling now that the new transit hub is open. People can now go straight from GO to MiWay avoiding the TTC.
I've been there and go transit isn't frequent enough. One time i was stuck at Kipling station and i checked to see if there was a train heading to union there wasn't in fact there were none scheduled to stop their during rush hour, hardly a good service for people in Toronto.
All the GO lines except for the Milton and Richmond Hill lines effectively have at least hourly service now. Pre COVID, the Toronto area stations has the highest ridership growth across the GO network following frequency
Hourly service isn't very attractive to people at all, also unless you are going to union station go transit is useless to you unfortunately people don't seem to understand that or they don't want to instead they think adding more stops and trains that only go to union or outside of Toronto is going to help people in Toronto.
By Zoom, I meant video conferencing/work/learn from home. More people are working from home than before the pandemic. The City of Toronto has adopted a permanent hybrid work model for certain employees. Schools are also offering more online learning opportunities to students. If people had a choice between travelling on the TTC in the state that it's in, or staying home, many would choose the latter.
You didn't make that clear at all and many businesses are saying that they are going to have people return to work in offices. I don't see there being enough people who will be able to work from home all the time having as much of an impact as you seem to think. There are many jobs that can't be done on line which some people seem to forget and that's why we still had crowded buses during the pandemic when people were working online.
 

allengeorge

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So, if I had to summarize the points and sentiment I’ve read so far to dismiss the article, they are:
  • People who complain about reliability don’t understand the realities of maintaining a system, and point or maintenance windows and other required work as examples to prove their point.
  • The idea that people are leaving the TTC is fake news.
  • People don’t understand the funding or political environment the TTC is operating in. Many of the troubles we’re seeing stem from that.
Is that correct?
 

DirectionNorth

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People don't want to accept that things break down or need maintenance done they expect everything to work all of the time, the world doesn't work like that. It's easy to sit behind your keyboard or post a picture on twitter and complain without any context whatsoever and that's what the people who say its not reliable do. People also have fulse expectations of how things work like for example they expect the bus to be at the stop waiting for them when they arrive they expect to be able to run onto the subway when the doors are closing and if they don't get on it's the operators fault and not their's. For every person who says that they are giving up in the TTC there are way more who don't really care about their opinions at all, if you think its not reliable and that riding a bike or taking a car is so much better than do it but don't expect someone to care about or for the TTC to care about your opinion.
Indeed, the TTC hasn't cared about its riders for a while.

Again, it's not actual reliability that matters, it's the perception of unreliability. A series of bad experiences and bad press will scare riders.
It's not really something that they can just take care of like people seem to think they can. People wander into the subway through bus bays at sations and it isn't just homeless people. They try to do something about but people complain about them or the city as targeting them and it's unfair to do that.
Mental health is an aspect that's been missing from public policy for decades. But it's outside the TTC's purview - my preferred course of action would be to keep homeless people out of subway systems, but to also get them into shelters. They can't do much about public priorities though.
Probably because there aren't as many go train stations for people to board. That could probably change with the extra stations that Metrolinx is adding in Toronto to "regonalize" the system.

Go isn't really as much of an alternative as people seem to think it is unless you live on one of the line that sees a lot of service in Toronto. Again I don't think that adding additional stations and trains on the existing go line is going to change how people commute in Toronto.

Zoom and other car share companies who dump cars on the street are only good for people who have a driver's license and according to statistics fewer people in Toronto have them then in the past.

The amount of people who leave the TTC for other forms of transit are a very small group and it isn't as much of a factor as they want it to be.
I didn't know Zoom was a car-share company. Isn't there this WFH thing that involves Zoom?

Anyways, people won't always switch to transit, or biking. They might start driving.
London only has part of one tube line and the Elizabeth lines underground stations that have platform edge doors yet people talk as if its the whole system. I can't say anything about Paris or Singapore as I'm not as familiar with them.
TYSSE and Sheppard could have been built from Day 1 with PSDs. Blame the politicians. Actually, so could the SSE. Do we know if the SSE is getting PSDs? I'm guessing no.
You didn't make that clear at all and many businesses are saying that they are going to have people return to work in offices. I don't see there being enough people who will be able to work from home all the time having as much of an impact as you seem to think. There are many jobs that can't be done on line which some people seem to forget and that's why we still had crowded buses during the pandemic when people were working online.
Part of that crowding comes from the service cuts implemented by the TTC during the pandemic.

Service cuts beget ridership drops, which beget service cuts ... It's not that people won't continue to take transit, it's the possibility that people (especially those during short trips) who found alternatives during COVID will not switch back to transit because of perceived issues. it's an issue facing transit agencies around the country.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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Again, it's not actual reliability that matters, it's the perception of unreliability. A series of bad experiences and bad press will scare riders.
Yup and I don't understand what people want to have their opinion heard the most. It's like when you look at reviews online for things now more pole will leave a negative review than a positive one. Negative ones don't help in the way that pole thinks they do.
I didn't know Zoom was a car-share company. Isn't there this WFH thing that involves Zoom?
I wasn't sure that you were talking about online meetings and just figured that it was one of the car share companies that want to leave cars everywhere that rarely get used despite what people seem to think that use them.
TYSSE and Sheppard could have been built from Day 1 with PSDs. Blame the politicians. Actually, so could the SSE. Do we know if the SSE is getting PSDs? I'm guessing no.
most likely budget cut as for the SSE that's Metrolink's call on what they will do. It appears that they are testing something new for the crosstown line that involves overhead sensors much like they use in parking lots to tell if a spot is occupied.
Part of that crowding comes from the service cuts implemented by the TTC during the pandemic.
Yes and no many bus lines are crowded and have frequent bus service but they still have issues again it also comes down to individual experiences.. That's one of the reasons why they created express lines on some routes to increase service at the busier stops and skip the lesser used ones.
 

Towered

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I'm trying hard to dial back inner tendencies to spew hyperbole, but I will say that the TTC...has a very long way to go to recapture former choice riders such as myself. For most of the last decade, I've commuted to work by bike. The exception was the 2 years of the pandemic, during which I drove to work because my company was kind enough to pay parking expenses for all employees. Since that ended in March, I hopped right back on my bike to commute (30 km total per day). The only times I take transit are when the weather forecast calls for rain, and it's a consistently unpleasant experience.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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If I may paraphase - TTC felt like a bit of a dump at times - and far more often these days: dodgy riders; stations in varying state of decrepitude (like tell me, how long have they been working on the slatted ceilings at say Islington? College?); surly workers; dirty vehicles - and it isn't even cheap. Like those stickers for mandatory distancing on the subway seatings - each and every one of them left this nasty/sticky dark stain on the already dodgy faux-velvet and I have yet to see anything being done about them. In the meantime, we have a bunch of workers trying to (but with hardly any takers) hand out weak surgical masks at Yonge-Bloor. Is that the best way to use the staff?

AoD
 
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beatle04

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Like those stickers for mandatory distancing on the subway seatings - each and every one of them left this nasty/sticky dark stain on the already dodgy faux-velvet and I have yet to see anything being done about them.
I've been on Line 1 a few times over the past week and every time I was on a train the sticky stuff on the seats were gone.
 

JasonParis

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COVID has really changed the dynamics of those on the service. And if the TTC wants to be serious about service restoration when so much of Toronto also has other means to travel, they do have to do the unpopular anti-PC stuff and start "moving people along" as it were.
 

APTA-2048

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COVID has really changed the dynamics of those on the service. And if the TTC wants to be serious about service restoration when so much of Toronto also has other means to travel, they do have to do the unpopular anti-PC stuff and start "moving people along" as it were.
I think even just having a security presence will help people feel safer. I’ve been riding regularly since mid-2021 and have seen zero fare inspectors or Special Constables (or whatever they’re called now). Even a few operators I’ve spoken to don’t feel the TTC has their back in terms of safety on the system.
 

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