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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

drum118

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On the Islington station mess, here's what I pulled from this document:

Islington Station accessibility: Magnitude and complexity of the bus terminal re-
development and interface with existing station may delay full station accessibility. Site
Plan Approval (SPA) by the City is required by mid 2022. Approvals by Hydro One,
Toronto Water, and CreateTO and completion of design related work including internal
acceptance is required by 2022. Comments on SPA are outstanding by City
Transportation. Mitigation: Continuing to investigate opportunities for advancing new
accessibility entrance and platform elevator through construction staging. Agreement
required between the City to mitigate municipal requirements in order to achieve SPA

approval on time.

So in short, I have no idea when construction is actually supposed to start on the new terminal. Maybe beginning of 2023 if we're lucky?

Islington EA** Detailed Design 2021/22............... Elevator in Service Q4 2024.............................. Station Completion Q3 2026
 

smallspy

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Richard White

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Apparently a Birchmount bus contacted a wall inside the station. Kind of an "overabundance of caution" situation, but that's why they took most of the station out of service.

Dan

Considering it was, I assume an exterior wall it makes sense. Though you would think they would have put everything in Bay 9, not the bay right next to the issue.

Welp... it will be gone in a year or so anyway.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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Ok, whatever they think that people are going to stop using the TTC and bike everywhere. They need to get a life and realize that a bicycle is not convent for everyone just like everyone who thinks that adding more bike lanes and removing lanes of the road will, make people ride bikes more. All I see is that it causes problems for people to pull over when an emergency vehicle needs to get through or when buses drop people off at the curb.
 

allengeorge

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Ok, whatever they think that people are going to stop using the TTC and bike everywhere. They need to get a life and realize that a bicycle is not convent for everyone just like everyone who thinks that adding more bike lanes and removing lanes of the road will, make people ride bikes more. All I see is that it causes problems for people to pull over when an emergency vehicle needs to get through or when buses drop people off at the curb.
The issue the article is pointing out - regardless of whether the author chose to bike or not - is that riders with choice are giving up the TTC, and that’s a serious problem. This was already an issue given its reliability problems (it was leaking riders to rideshare), and the pandemic may have accelerated the trend. It may now be losing riders for short haul trips, people who would have bought monthly passes - and given its heavy reliance on farebox revenue, this is pretty bad.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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The issue the article is pointing out - regardless of whether the author chose to bike or not - is that riders with choice are giving up the TTC, and that’s a serious problem. This was already an issue given its reliability problems (it was leaking riders to rideshare), and the pandemic may have accelerated the trend. It may now be losing riders for short haul trips, people who would have bought monthly passes - and given its heavy reliance on farebox revenue, this is pretty bad.
I disagree with that yes people aren't buying monthly passes anymore mainly because having it on a presto card isn't as easy anymore back when it was a sprite card. The TTC has already said that they are looking into scraping the metro pass. I don't buy the whole people saying it's unreliable as they often have no clue what they are talking about because it's always followed by something stupid like they close are part of it every weekend, The TTC has explained multiple times why they close part of the line but people still don't want to pay attention. Then you have the people, who complain when there is a delay because someone was pushed onto the tracks or commented suicide. I'm sick and tired of people like that they need to grow up and realize that things happen that not everyone can control.
 

DirectionNorth

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I disagree with that yes people aren't buying monthly passes anymore mainly because having it on a presto card isn't as easy anymore back when it was a sprite card. The TTC has already said that they are looking into scraping the metro pass. I don't buy the whole people saying it's unreliable as they often have no clue what they are talking about because it's always followed by something stupid like they close are part of it every weekend, The TTC has explained multiple times why they close part of the line but people still don't want to pay attention. Then you have the people, who complain when there is a delay because someone was pushed onto the tracks or commented suicide. I'm sick and tired of people like that they need to grow up and realize that things happen that not everyone can control.
Telling people to "grow up" is not a solution to reliability on the TTC. Whether there is an actual issue or not, people don't like it when parts of the line close down for whatever reason, and the perception of the lack of reliability is the fastest way to get people off transit. Just ask OC Transpo - their LRT is more on time than our subway, but they're having huge PR issues because of the media surrounding the Confederation Line.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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Telling people to "grow up" is not a solution to reliability on the TTC. Whether there is an actual issue or not, people don't like it when parts of the line close down for whatever reason, and the perception of the lack of reliability is the fastest way to get people off transit. Just ask OC Transpo - their LRT is more on time than our subway, but they're having huge PR issues because of the media surrounding the Confederation Line.
People don't want to accept that things break down or need maintenance done they expect everything to work all of the time, the world doesn't work like that. It's easy to sit behind your keyboard or post a picture on twitter and complain without any context whatsoever and that's what the people who say its not reliable do. People also have fulse expectations of how things work like for example they expect the bus to be at the stop waiting for them when they arrive they expect to be able to run onto the subway when the doors are closing and if they don't get on it's the operators fault and not their's. For every person who says that they are giving up in the TTC there are way more who don't really care about their opinions at all, if you think its not reliable and that riding a bike or taking a car is so much better than do it but don't expect someone to care about or for the TTC to care about your opinion.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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People don't want to accept that things break down or need maintenance done they expect everything to work all of the time, the world doesn't work like that. It's easy to sit behind your keyboard or post a picture on twitter and complain without any context whatsoever and that's what the people who say its not reliable do. People also have fulse expectations of how things work like for example they expect the bus to be at the stop waiting for them when they arrive they expect to be able to run onto the subway when the doors are closing and if they don't get on it's the operators fault and not their's. For every person who says that they are giving up in the TTC there are way more who don't really care about their opinions at all, if you think its not reliable and that riding a bike or taking a car is so much better than do it but don't expect someone to care about or for the TTC to care about your opinion.

Indeed, it's pretty apparent that TTC hasn't cared for the opinions of their riders for awhile now.

AoD
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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Indeed, it's pretty apparent that TTC hasn't cared for the opinions of their riders for awhile now.

AoD
No they just don't care about the one's who want to complain about things that they try to explain as much as they can but they don't want to accept it as an answer because how dare they inconvenience them because they need to make repairs or improvements to the subway or streetcar network. I think people have this ideal transit system in their heads based on what they have seen or read about from other systems around the world and they think everything should run the way the want it too.
 

Northern Light

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Then you have the people, who complain when there is a delay because someone was pushed onto the tracks or commented suicide. I'm sick and tired of people like that they need to grow up and realize that things happen that not everyone can control.

Only one thing.............this is controllable.......Platform Edge Doors are a thing.........they're in wide use all over the world at this point. No one expects them to be installed in every station overnight, or in a year, that's unrealistic on any number of levels.

But....the Sheppard Line was originally designed with platform edge doors in mind, something that was cut from the plans.

So this is tech we could have been installing for the last 25 years plus............ (subject to having put in Automatic Train Control or ATC, which we're also a few decades late on, considering we installed in on the SRT in 1983. )

This is manageable.

So, in respect of subways are most closures (not all); because ATC allows for single-track, two-way operation, safely. With that, its possible to close down the track in a given area in one direction for work, while sustaining 2-way service, albeit not at peak-levels.

****

In respect of surface routes, that are not in exclusive rights-of-way, there is still room for greater reliability by removing what random obstacles to service one may face (un regulated left-turns in front of a bus/streetcar blocking the only lane), these can be physically obstructed so as to prevent them; and operators, can also be penalized for 'running hot' (which means purposely leaving early and following another bus/streetcar closely so that you run mostly empty).

Finally, its also possible to avoid delays due to crewing by utilized double-step back crewing, and boarding delays by running more service and reducing crowding.

This is not science fiction, systems all over the world do just this.

We can to.

Its quite right to say we shouldn't 'just complain'; but we can, and ought to demand better.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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Only one thing.............this is controllable.......Platform Edge Doors are a thing.........they're in wide use all over the world at this point. No one expects them to be installed in every station overnight, or in a year, that's unrealistic on any number of levels.
Yes, this is something that someplace has put in but it's not on every line or at every station like some pole seems to think. Also, the TTC does't have the funding that other cities have to be able to do they are also said that they need to rebuild the platforms to be able to handle them which is something that is not in the budget right now. Most of the platforms are hollow inside and they can't handle the weight of platform edge doors.
But....the Sheppard Line was originally designed with platform edge doors in mind, something that was cut from the plans.
Nope that was the TYSE that was built with them in mind however they were cancelled because they had to change out the contract for the ATC project because they didn't like how it was working out.
So this is tech we could have been installing for the last 25 years plus............ (subject to having put in Automatic Train Control or ATC, which we're also a few decades late on, considering we installed in on the SRT in 1983. )
again the reason why is funding and also not everywhere in the world has them secretly in North America no station in New York or Chicago or Boston, Washington DC or anywhere else that has subways has them.
So, in respect of subways are most closures (not all); because ATC allows for single-track, two-way operation, safely. With that, its possible to close down the track in a given area in one direction for work, while sustaining 2-way service, albeit not at peak-levels.
Single track isn't always possible on all of the Subway networks and it is not because of the signalling it's because for most of the lines except for the TYSE both third rails share power and if you cut power to one rail you cut it to both.
In respect of surface routes, that are not in exclusive rights-of-way, there is still room for greater reliability by removing what random obstacles to service one may face (un regulated left-turns in front of a bus/streetcar blocking the only lane), these can be physically obstructed so as to prevent them; and operators, can also be penalized for 'running hot' (which means purposely leaving early and following another bus/streetcar closely so that you run mostly empty).
Fort some of the changes that they need to make we have to have people in the city council who want to make them, they think adding stop signs to quiet streets is more important than giving priority to a streetcar or bus because the local people, who voted for them are more import over the people who drive in cars are more important.
This is not science fiction, systems all over the world do just this.
They have funding and city councils that care about public transit users.
 

littlewill1166

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It's not even the maintenance issues.

The TTC has turned into a homeless shelter/CAMH on wheels. Every time I take the subway, there is at least one homeless person lying down across a set of seats. Every other time I get asked for money. Then there are the piss soaked seats...

I'm surprised that GO doesn't have this problem despite it being Proof of Payment. On most of the midday trips I took last week, I had the entire upper level to myself.

Many people will leave the TTC without complaining. They have other choices, GO, bike, car, Zoom.
 

Northern Light

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Yes, this is something that someplace has put in but it's not on every line or at every station like some pole seems to think. Also, the TTC does't have the funding that other cities have to be able to do they are also said that they need to rebuild the platforms to be able to handle them which is something that is not in the budget right now. Most of the platforms are hollow inside and they can't handle the weight of platform edge doors.

The cost is 12-15M per station for those stations that are not PED-ready by design.

The total cost is in the range of 1B system-wide, which is not chump change, but spread over a realistic time-frame of 15 years is less than 100M per year; against a City of Toronto overall budget of 16B per year.

Nope that was the TYSE that was built with them in mind however they were cancelled because they had to change out the contract for the ATC project because they didn't like how it was working out.

Here's the report on Sheppard Subway Platform Edge Doors, from 1998:


From the above:

1654829915652.png



again the reason why is funding and also not everywhere in the world has them secretly in North America no station in New York or Chicago or Boston, Washington DC or anywhere else that has subways has them.

The U.S. is not a suitable comparator. It has exactly one city with public transit that rivals Toronto (NYC), outside of New York and it is largely deemed a service for the poor, or perhaps tourists (a toy trolley).

In New York the backlog in maintenance makes the TTC look exemplary.

There is no reason not to compare Toronto to Singapore or Paris, or London etc etc.

Single track isn't always possible on all of the Subway networks and it is not because of the signalling it's because for most of the lines except for the TYSE both third rails share power and if you cut power to one rail you cut it to both.

This is fixable.
 
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