zang
Senior Member
Is that from the TTC or the union?
Hard to believe any requested time off after something like this would ever been deemed “unnecessary”.
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Is that from the TTC or the union?
DSCToronto
Superstar
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I think some people prefer to return to their regular routines at times like this and the choice appears to be theirs.
Jonny5
Senior Member
This sounds like a matter of the insurance provider, who I assume is paying out a short-term disability payment of the employee's wages, and they may have some maximum limitations on how long is "necessary" in the contract, or may rely on doctor evaluations to decide when someone is ready to come back or not, even if the employee disagrees.
JBR
Active Member
Not sure where you’re getting your info on PriorityOne procedures but you’re still wrong.
Step1 is to stop the train using the emergency brake
Step2 is to exit the train via the staff door and cut traction power in an attempt to preserve life
Step3 is to establish communication with TransitControl via the PAX phone at the Traction Power Cut Station
More steps follow…
JBR
Active Member
Not seeing how talking about PriorityOne helps the forum and may be triggering to any members that are operators that may have experienced this in the past.
RapidTransit
Active Member
Again your wrong Dan.
The first thing an operator is suppose do is cut the power. Theres a phone from there where they can call control.
If too traumatized, sure stay in cab. But procedure is cut power, first. Always assume the person is alive, and for emergency personnel to get down safely.
Anyways I'm not going to keep correcting you.
But I'm literally with a family member looking at the rule book and discussing it.
nfitz
Superstar
I don't see any fundamental difference between what the two of you are saying.
Says the person splitting hairs. With consecutive unnecessary posts!
I'd think for the purposes of this forum, if one is worried about messaging, is to remind those who are more likely to be standing on the platform, than in the cockpit, to walk to the end of the platform and cut the power themselves.
Check the rule book to see if it explains how you cut the power while the train is still moving, and you are inside the train. I'm quite curious about that!
Northern Light
Superstar
Ok........while I think this discussion should move on.............I feel the need to say here, I don't actually see the contradictions some of you seem to between various posts/posters.
This incident occurred with the train still mostly or entirely in the tunnel, on approach to Union, as I understand it, from the witness account.
In that context, the operator would be expected to remain with the train so long as passengers are on board. Particularly true if the cab had not physically entered the station, which is unclear to me, from the post.
Which is what I believe Dan was suggesting.
Remember that Line 1 is now Single-operator, no guards. So you're not going to leave a loaded train of passengers unattended.
Once the train is moved into a station, they can be easily relieved, I'm sure relief would be brought to the train if the operator were unable to manage. Which would be understandable, but will also take time.
At a station, the train would be evacuated, and with the doors closed, the operator could exit and leave the train unattended while station staff and supervisors takeover.
The rule book description is correct, but applies to an in-station scenario. Where evacuation to the platform is possible. Clearly once EMS and other help had arrived the choice was still made not to offload at Union.
***
No one posting here had ill intent, this starts as an explanation to a poster who was on scene, first hand, wondering why things were handled the way they were. There was an attempt to give answer to that, and while the wording might be quibbled with the substantive answer was correct in the context of the situation.
If anyone who works for TTC here feels procedure was not correctly followed, you have an internal mechanism for flagging that.
Elsewise, its sufficient to say that procedure was followed, and yes that's hard on the operator, for whom we all ought to have sympathy, in addition to the person whose life was lost.
***
Now let me return to.........full-height Platform Edge Doors are what would, to a near certaintly prevent 90% of these incidents from ever happening, at a minimum. It should be close to 100%, but nothing is 100%.
The primary need is to address this as preventable. However one feels about the TTC, or those suffering mental illness or engaging in irresponsible conduct (being at unauthorized track level for a reason other than suicide) or TTC management of this or any other situation..........the object should be that it never happens in the first place which remedies the situation.
This incident occurred with the train still mostly or entirely in the tunnel, on approach to Union, as I understand it, from the witness account.
In that context, the operator would be expected to remain with the train so long as passengers are on board. Particularly true if the cab had not physically entered the station, which is unclear to me, from the post.
Which is what I believe Dan was suggesting.
Remember that Line 1 is now Single-operator, no guards. So you're not going to leave a loaded train of passengers unattended.
Once the train is moved into a station, they can be easily relieved, I'm sure relief would be brought to the train if the operator were unable to manage. Which would be understandable, but will also take time.
At a station, the train would be evacuated, and with the doors closed, the operator could exit and leave the train unattended while station staff and supervisors takeover.
The rule book description is correct, but applies to an in-station scenario. Where evacuation to the platform is possible. Clearly once EMS and other help had arrived the choice was still made not to offload at Union.
***
No one posting here had ill intent, this starts as an explanation to a poster who was on scene, first hand, wondering why things were handled the way they were. There was an attempt to give answer to that, and while the wording might be quibbled with the substantive answer was correct in the context of the situation.
If anyone who works for TTC here feels procedure was not correctly followed, you have an internal mechanism for flagging that.
Elsewise, its sufficient to say that procedure was followed, and yes that's hard on the operator, for whom we all ought to have sympathy, in addition to the person whose life was lost.
***
Now let me return to.........full-height Platform Edge Doors are what would, to a near certaintly prevent 90% of these incidents from ever happening, at a minimum. It should be close to 100%, but nothing is 100%.
The primary need is to address this as preventable. However one feels about the TTC, or those suffering mental illness or engaging in irresponsible conduct (being at unauthorized track level for a reason other than suicide) or TTC management of this or any other situation..........the object should be that it never happens in the first place which remedies the situation.
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urbanclient
Active Member
A nitpick here, considering leaks on the true frequency of "injury on the tracks" on the TTC, I would be fairly certain the number is closer to 100% than 90%. Full height PSD metro systems have fatal incidents, like what, once every 2-3 years? Just looking at Shanghai with many times more route length than Toronto, going back two decades to now. (~800 km with PSDs vs. 70 km; as of today). And looking into those cases, I doubt people in Canada would be just as likely to place punctuality over life so carelessly.
With full height PSDs, we're looking at a per route km incident rate that is easily 100 times less than the TTC.
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nfitz
Superstar
It would certainly reduce it - but not 100%. Perhaps 90%. But sadly there'll be some that are very motivated to just find other ways to get themselves in front of a subway train. There's certainly spots you could jump off a bridge in front of a train, or just hop a fence and climb down/up a bank.
What it might do is shift more suicides to other locations, such GO trains, high bridges, and maybe even streetcars.
I'd think one could pull data from lines on other systems, where there is outdoor sections of lines with enclosed platforms.
Why do you think there's only an incident every 2 or 3 years?
It's not like you can trust any information about civilian deaths that the lying corrupt communist party in China says. They still claim that there was few if any deaths in the Tiananmen Square, with multiple reliable reports of more than 10,000+ dead, and the evil tyrannical dictator Xi Jinping being aware that bodies of victims were crushed by armored personnel carriers until they were "ground up" and the remains hosed down into the drainage and sewer systems to dispose of the evidence.
Would you believe civilian death data from such an evil backwards place?
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