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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Honestly, as good as the LRT plan is, it's never coming back. People such as Josh Matlow can push and beg for it all they want but there is no way the Ontario Grits and the Federal Grits will let it be built. A subway is coming. I say just let the Bloor-Danforth extension happen with the Crosstown East extension. No more debate. No more delays. Just set in new taxes in Toronto so new money is raised for all need transit projects, mainly the Relief Line.
I do not think The Federal gov't cares what gets built. The money they promised was for Toronto to build what ever transit- not specifically earmarked for a specific project; ie scarborough subway so Tory is misleading when he says the city will loose federal money. The province cannot forces the city to build anything. Besides, the Liberals will be out next election in Ontario and the P.C will cancel the subway. This is the time that I am actually looking forward to cancellation of a subway. In business Tory would never approve such a scheme of $4B for 1 stop. How does 1 stop serve Scarborough unless you live near STC or north and can park there and take subway? Someone should ask Tory do the majority of the people in Scarborough come downtown and need that 1 stop or do they work around Scarborough and need the 7stop LRT? I would love to see how he will answer.

I think he feels like he cannot waver and because people will accuse him of flip flopping. During the election he should have honestly spoken to residents in Scarborough and explained how 7 stops is better than 1 stop. I really also think people hear subway and think they all will get a stop. Especially as Tory says they are all immigrants, they have no idea how long things take to build here and the subway means 1 stop at 1 location. Politicians count on people not understanding when they doublespeak
 
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I may not have given it much thought before this, but in Tory's article did he somewhat hint that it will be impossible to continue running the SRT/S(L)RT along the Stouffville corridor with RER in place? Is the corridor wide enough to have 2-3 GO tracks + 2 SRT/SLRT tracks?
 
For the love of God. It's the same lefty tweets and manufactured media politics every week.

We're just debating between two VERY lacklustre plans. This carousel goes nowhere. Split the middle and build a surface subway to Sheppard. The lefties can no longer claim "stops" and the Scarborough Center/Sheppard and the rest of Scarborough will have a great connected line to feed into.

If the Left really cared about connecting Scarborough and adding stop they would pay the extra change to use subway technology instead of LRT on the same surface line. But no these donkey's could care less and refuse to give up and help find solution.
 
What do you expect from a politician? But it's no secret that the poorest areas in the city are the most underserved by rapid transit. I hope I'm not teaching you anything new here. It's fact.


Let's rewind a bit further behind:
  • TTC submit plan to upgrade SRT to MK.II trains, killed by Miller Transit City plan (Many times more expansive than what the TTC wanted to do). Why is nobody recognizing that as well?
  • Rob Ford wanted the SRT merged into Eglinton Crosstown provided that the East would be buried. He accepted Scarborough RT to have LRT trains as long as it was part of the Crosstown
  • When Council killed it out of spite for Ford and LRT biais, that opened the door for Ford to go all out on his subway offensive. The province had clearly cornered Ford in the MOU as Sheppard Subway was unrealistic with is funding scheme but Scarborough would have had LRTs.
There I fixed the timeline for you.


Metrolinx already analyzed it and said it wasn't worth it. Case closed


The mistake is not the cost, it's the plan itself. The 3 stop subway had indeed the required ridership justifying the investment. Cutting Sheppard stop and replacing the Lawrence stop with a Lawrence Smarttrack stop is what killed the ridership. With the current scenario, a 1 stop subway makes no sense at all. Might as well bring back the 3 stop subway at this point.

Cant blame him
But he read it in the Star & the Mayor of Toronto Josh Matlow and they use "facts" so it must be true.
 
Eglinton Crosstown with SRT was the best solution...Period. This plan was killed out of pure hate for the messenger. In all his follies, Ford was at least right on this line, but his haters and Stinz ego/ambitions couldn't handle it.

This is where you get the other extreme at city all. Sure the pro subway can be a bit extreme but pro-LRT people can be just as extreme. A Mk III on Eglinton+Scarborough would have ended up being cheaper and draw more riders,

Pro-LRT extremists not wanting to compromise 1 bit are just as bad as por-subway extremists...

Man this is getting old.

What do you expect from a politician? But it's no secret that the poorest areas in the city are the most underserved by rapid transit. I hope I'm not teaching you anything new here. It's fact.


Let's rewind a bit further behind:
  • TTC submit plan to upgrade SRT to MK.II trains, killed by Miller Transit City plan (Many times more expansive than what the TTC wanted to do). Why is nobody recognizing that as well?
  • Rob Ford wanted the SRT merged into Eglinton Crosstown provided that the East would be buried. He accepted Scarborough RT to have LRT trains as long as it was part of the Crosstown
  • When Council killed it out of spite for Ford and LRT biais, that opened the door for Ford to go all out on his subway offensive. The province had clearly cornered Ford in the MOU as Sheppard Subway was unrealistic with is funding scheme but Scarborough would have had LRTs.
There I fixed the timeline for you.


Metrolinx already analyzed it and said it wasn't worth it. Case closed


The mistake is not the cost, it's the plan itself. The 3 stop subway had indeed the required ridership justifying the investment. Cutting Sheppard stop and replacing the Lawrence stop with a Lawrence Smarttrack stop is what killed the ridership. With the current scenario, a 1 stop subway makes no sense at all. Might as well bring back the 3 stop subway at this point.

I actually could have been and can be sold on eglinton.

The Neptis report had also claimed that Transit City had grossly underestimated Eglinton Crosstown ridership and that with 100% grade separation on the entire line, you were in subway territory, but they said a skytrain technology instead would have suffice.

Elevating Eglinton should have been explored further but 100% grade separation was totally warranted and this whole Scarborough mess wouldn't be happening today
Cobra nails it...SRT all the way to the Airport would have been the best and final solution, but council gridlock killed it. This is just sad on all ends at this point. I wan this to be over.


Sixrings, remember when some said Eglinton should have been a real subway? That could have been another solution.
This is a fact, however, property values usually go up near subway stations, so poor areas will no longer be poor areas after a subway is built.
People forget this. Scarborough will be in demand, and the people that are the loudest could be pushed out to Pickering, Oshawa, etc.
 
For the love of God. It's the same lefty tweets and manufactured media politics every week.

We're just debating between two VERY lacklustre plans. This carousel goes nowhere. Split the middle and build a surface subway to Sheppard. The lefties can no longer claim "stops" and the Scarborough Center/Sheppard and the rest of Scarborough will have a great connected line to feed into.

If the Left really cared about connecting Scarborough and adding stop they would pay the extra change to use subway technology instead of LRT on the same surface line. But no these donkey's could care less and refuse to give up and help find solution.
Why do you have to make everything so polarizing. I can't take any of your posts seriously when you write like this.
 
Why do you have to make everything so polarizing. I can't take any of your posts seriously when you write like this.

Im the one who says there is a compromise. Wake up. It is a polarizing debate and has been for a LONG time. It needs to end.

Im asking for equality in Scarborough to end the polarization. But you cant get there when the narrative is run by those on one side of the debate that refuse to listen and work with Scarborough residents who have multiple need and not just LRT vs. Subway. It can be both. LRT as a local network and Subway to to SCC or even Sheppard. To beat your head on an surface LRT plan that can almost as easily be Subway on that surface route is just Donkey politics.

Im also tired of seeing Matlow as the spokesman for the SSE in the left media every week. The guy is not the Mayor of Toronto or a Scarborough Councillor yet he gets as much or more airtime on the issue than Tory. If he is so important to the City and Scarborough he can run for Mayor next election and see how that works out.

I get you dont agree with me but at least im asking for compromise, equality & quality integration. The SLRT doesn't fulfil that.
 
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Sixrings, remember when some said Eglinton should have been a real subway? That could have been another solution..

This was not an actual solution since the RT corridor could not have a subway run on its turns which is why we are in this subway inflating mess that we are in now.

My solution then and is now is this... I get that I am a lone wolf on it though and it may have some problems which I am sure could be over come. I also am willing to say goodbye to UP express which I am sure some will hate.
 

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You make some good points about what Scarboro may need, but throwing in this rant about the 'Left' destroys your whole contribution.
I see no logic to the absurd inference that this is about immigration. Are you saying the Left filled Scarboro with immigrants and then abandoned them there with no transit? And what would the Right have done ?
And, when the Star starts pointing out that the subway proposal is not fiscally responsible, we really have come full circle in measuring Right vs Left.
There are valid arguments in favour of the subway and valid arguments against it. Invoking all this pseudo political intellectual babble about Left vs Right is totally off base - it's the sort of crap an elitist intellectual would pull.
I don't think you could spot a Lefty from a Righty if they handed you a tax bill.

Can we get back to the subway debate ?

- Paul
 
For the love of God. It's the same lefty tweets and manufactured media politics every week.

We're just debating between two VERY lacklustre plans. This carousel goes nowhere. Split the middle and build a surface subway to Sheppard. The lefties can no longer claim "stops" and the Scarborough Center/Sheppard and the rest of Scarborough will have a great connected line to feed into.

If the Left really cared about connecting Scarborough and adding stop they would pay the extra change to use subway technology instead of LRT on the same surface line. But no these donkey's could care less and refuse to give up and help find solution.
this stuff about caring for scarborough makes me sick. Like scarborough is so special that we need to tippy toe around it. Well the truth is I do no care about Scaborough or Vaughan or Markam (oh I forgot, the last 2 are not part of Toronto). I care about proper transit in the core of the city as that is where demand is
 
You make some good points about what Scarboro may need, but throwing in this rant about the 'Left' destroys your whole contribution.
I see no logic to the absurd inference that this is about immigration. Are you saying the Left filled Scarboro with immigrants and then abandoned them there with no transit? And what would the Right have done ?
And, when the Star starts pointing out that the subway proposal is not fiscally responsible, we really have come full circle in measuring Right vs Left.
There are valid arguments in favour of the subway and valid arguments against it. Invoking all this pseudo political intellectual babble about Left vs Right is totally off base - it's the sort of crap an elitist intellectual would pull.
I don't think you could spot a Lefty from a Righty if they handed you a tax bill.

Can we get back to the subway debate ?

- Paul
I agree Paul


But Scarborough will never stop making a stink until we give them a subway. We should just cave, build both subways and move on.
 
Maybe he thinks an ugly win is still a win...

Jennifer PagliaroVerified account‏@jpags
In op-ed defending Scarborough subway, Tory suggests critics want to leave immigrants behind https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2016/06/27/why-i-support-the-scarborough-subway-john-tory.html…

Cl_XjhxWkAA42Ke.jpg

Haha word for word sounds like something that could have been straight from the pen of Keithz. Maybe he's a political operative? All the Tory boosterism of ScamTrack and other Tory pet projects would make sense.
 
This was not an actual solution since the RT corridor could not have a subway run on its turns which is why we are in this subway inflating mess that we are in now.

My solution then and is now is this... I get that I am a lone wolf on it though and it may have some problems which I am sure could be over come. I also am willing to say goodbye to UP express which I am sure some will hate.
I love that solution. And screw UP! Eglinton West should have been built first but Toronto Planning!!
 

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