News   Mar 28, 2024
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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Not so lite mate.

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Olivia Chow finished 3rd place in every one of those wards. Ford and Tory got over 80% of the vote.
 
ssiguy2 said: A great article but it still doesn't touch the best and cheapest (Yes thanks, we want the cheapest option that you think is best for us.) of the opitions.

The best of course is too simply upgrade the current SRT and Kennedy exchange and simply extend the SkyTrain all the way to downtown using the current rail corridors. Far less disruption to build, fastest route, and the control/maintenance/garage is already in place. (The existing corridor is terrible, a joke of a design. The only ways it's even palatable is if there is no transfer)

After that then it's a ST spur to downtown although it has the disadvantage of having to build along a used corridor that will still have GO and SRT running.

LRT is obviously a better choice than this fool hardy subway adventure but, as noted in the article, the LRT east expansion to U of T at Scar is a good idea (Yes this line make sense. +1 for a properly designed LRT line) and an entire true Crosstown from Scar to Miss makes for seamless crosstown travel(Mississauga 5 highways, 1 East-West seamless LRT , 1 Seamless East-West LRT, 1 seamless BRT to the airport . Scarborough 1 highway, 1 East-West seamless LRT (finally) and a hack job to STC and on Sheppard?

Toronto simply refuses to build quality transit in Scarborough and just fights anything Scarborough related than goes on to justify with slanted media reports. Scarborough is clearly no longer building highways to move people and attract business like a 905 Suburb, so we sure as hell better be investing in a high quality integrated public transit network


Explain the 4 options, (its been explained ad nauseam. No more. It's not Scarborough that doesn't get it. ) their costs, speed, frequency, dis/advantages in a series of town halls throughout Scarberia,(I think we need a town hall to explain to Toronto's transit rich anti-inner suburb NIMBY's Scarborough wants integrated connections to the current network. We can build nice shiny billboards illustrating the quality transit Toronto currently has surrounding in the wealthy, thriving areas and slowly explain that Scarborough is located in Toronto.) show examples of the new SkyTrain cars, LRT, and catenary subways so they know what they are voting on and tell them the budget. Let them know thast a one stop subway will not result in a very shortened Eglinton East LRT clearly stating that the budget of $2.9 billion is firm and non-negotiable so they know that that putting all the money into one little extension will cause cuts in other projects, and then hold a plebiscite or a series of 3 or 4 different polls ("Yes someone hurry & call a referendum quick they are talking about building quality in Scarborough. Oh my God this can't happen. Stop it Now") over a one week period and release the results at the same time, take the scores and the most popular option wins. Let Scarberiens (Does repeating Scarberians and talking down make you feel better?) make their choice and they have to live with the consequences. (We've have lived with the consequences of poor Government investment for decades. Your idea/threat is baseless out here)

It takes the decision out of the hands of the sleazy politicians (I agree Politicians are brutal but its only a 911 issue because it's Scarborough. An area which has never been the beneficiary of Politics before. Unlike the transit rich areas of the City) with political agendas and puts into the hands of the people that will actually use it and will put an end to this fiasco once and for all.

The decision has been made. Corridor alternative open for discussion. But cheaper, more transfers, & poor route designs. No thanks.
 
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My point was Scarborough voted for Rob Ford Heavy.

Originally this discussion was about how willing Scarborough residents wish to see their taxes rise for their pet project. With Ford getting 50% of the vote and Tory getting almost 2/3rds of the remaining vote under the same BS austerity platform, I think it's safe to say that Scarborough voters want overbuilt transit and have no interest in paying for any of it.
 
Originally this discussion was about how willing Scarborough residents wish to see their taxes rise for their pet project. With Ford getting 50% of the vote and Tory getting almost 2/3rds of the remaining vote under the same BS austerity platform, I think it's safe to say that Scarborough voters want overbuilt transit and have no interest in paying for any of it.

You're looking at it from only one aspect. If the tax was going to actually build/maintain something for the people getting ignored in the suburbs its not that much of an issue. But their voices were ignored for too long and thus you are seeing the residual effect. Its not only taxes. I think the largest group screaming about taxes are from the transit rich areas and there media megaphone.

The far left can turn into staunch conservatives when Scarborough investment is being discussed
 
You're looking at it from only one aspect. If the tax was going to actually build/maintain something for the people getting ignored in the suburbs its not that much of an issue. But their voices were ignored for too long and thus you are seeing the residual effect. Its not only taxes. I think the largest group screaming about taxes are from the transit rich areas and there media megaphone.

The far left can turn into staunch conservatives when Scarborough investment is being discussed

Oh, please. I vaguely more or less support the 3 stop extension, and that's still nonsense. Ford and Tory run on a platform of "finding efficiencies". The SSE is anything but an efficiency. If you asked a dozen Ford supporters about how to cut taxes, they'd talk about "cutting waste". From a strict dollars and cents point of view, the SSE is wasteful. The hypocrisy charge is a fair one.

Yes, your councillors may have ignored _you_. They may have listened to people who wanted large wide roads rather than making sensible investments, but that would have been your councillors, from Scarborough, not the downtown councillors whose job it isn't to manage Scarborough.

No one from Scarborough has ever managed to show anything that proves that Scarborough is short changed from either a capital or an operational perspective. It probably requires investment, and I hope it is one that pays off, both in dollars and cents and, you know, you losing that chip on your shoulder, but there is no proof, no set of studies, suggesting it is now, or historically, short changed.
 
Oh, please. I vaguely more or less support the 3 stop extension, and that's still nonsense. Ford and Tory run on a platform of "finding efficiencies". The SSE is anything but an efficiency. If you asked a dozen Ford supporters about how to cut taxes, they'd talk about "cutting waste". From a strict dollars and cents point of view, the SSE is wasteful. The hypocrisy charge is a fair one.

Yes, your councillors may have ignored _you_. They may have listened to people who wanted large wide roads rather than making sensible investments, but that would have been your councillors, from Scarborough, not the downtown councillors whose job it isn't to manage Scarborough.

No one from Scarborough has ever managed to show anything that proves that Scarborough is short changed from either a capital or an operational perspective. It probably requires investment, and I hope it is one that pays off, both in dollars and cents and, you know, you losing that chip on your shoulder, but there is no proof, no set of studies, suggesting it is now, or historically, short changed.


So much wrong here and so much right. No reason to argue whats wrong in detail because its politics and there's not black or white ever.

But certain things are cut & dry and the ONE major problem is Scarborough has no urgency or priority from the City itself to build quality and attract investment. You can blame the past all you want. Im talking about recently and today. Amalgamation has taken any chance of detailed & focused growth/revitalization plan which we see in many 905 City's have found success. Instead of focus its debates not to build led by the richer areas in Toronto. Very problematic for the growth of the City
 
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What alignments do you recommend?
Revisit the SRT alignment - see what can be done to improve it (the argument against being the turns slows it down too much). If one argue that this alignment doesn't serve where the demand is - sorry, a one stop subway to STC definitely serves less.

Why not consider the Gatineau Hydro Corridor. It is wide enough. Also the portion of the subway extension through the corridor we can keep it on the surface until we reach Scarborough General Hospital. We can save the cost of tunneling in this section. Why ignore this big empty piece of land? Just because its owned by the province doesn't mean that we shouldn't try and work out a deal with the province on usage of this corridor. Also this presents a great opportunity for Transit-oriented-Development.

Also, I'm well aware this won't happen, but lets look at this idea. After Why not have the subway terminus at Brimley/Sheppard. It's closer to the CP Midtown rail corridor than Mc Cowan/Sheppard and would be useful should GO Transit decide to bring service on that corridor. Also Agincourt could be transformed into a walk able and transit-oriented neighborhood. You wouldn't have to just rely on the GO Stouffville line.

The result, we can potentially have 6 new stations instead of the one station proposed to STC

The stops proposed are as followes
1) Midland/Stansbury
2) Brimley/Lawrence E
3) Scarborough Hospital
4) Ellesmere/Mc Cowan (Scarborough Centre South)
5) Brimley/Progress (Scarborough Centre North)
6) Brimley/Sheppard E
 
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Actually, I think the far left wants the Scarborough investment. It seems to be the right that wants to waste the money on this less-deserving mega-project.
+

Not really. The Left knows its past time to start building transit in the suburbs & they want do it on there terms and the cheapest way ONLY. They look at it as if they can do it on the cheap than they can get more money to serve there own self interests.

No attention to quality design or fair integration with "their" own network whatsoever. The right doesn't want to do anything.

Up until recently Scarborough had little voice in the matter
 
as a former Scarborough resident I find the constant talk of being treated like third class citizens tiring and although I should be a better person, angers me enough that I hope they get nothing but tax increases of course.
 
Toronto Councillors ought to provide appropriate rapid transit for Scarborough residents in a cost effective manner, presumably without wasting taxpayers money.
I believe the priority issue is to provide equitable TTC service to the people of Scarborough north of the 401.
There are people north of the 401 who have go to St. Michael’s Hospital, Sick Kids Hospital, A/C & Rogers Centers with no good TTC options.
Surely there is a rational way to spend $3.56 billion to improve the quality of life of these residents.

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/transit-fantasy-maps.3005/page-292#post-1109076
 
as a former Scarborough resident I find the constant talk of being treated like third class citizens tiring and although I should be a better person, angers me enough that I hope they get nothing but tax increases of course.

And your wish has been granted for the past 50 years so it's still possible.

I don't blame you for leaving. There has been no effort for revitalization or investment and the rich are pooling toward the Ciy's main backbone of transit and the middle class is running to the 905 where the individual City's care about attracting residents and business. Surely we have smart enough engineers/planners to connect seamless technologies in an economic manner. At the very least to STC.


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So much wrong here and so much right. No reason to argue whats wrong in detail because its politics and there's not black or white ever.

But certain things are cut & dry and the ONE major problem is Scarborough has no urgency or priority from the City itself to build quality and attract investment. You can blame the past all you want. Im talking about recently and today. Amalgamation has taken any chance of detailed & focused growth/revitalization plan which we see in many 905 City's have found success. Instead of focus its debates not to build led by the richer areas in Toronto. Very problematic for the growth of the City

I've been reading this thread for weeks and held my peace. But with the recent news about the ridiculous escalation yet again with the SSE, and the non-stop horseshit coming out of certain Scarborough residues here, I've had all that I can take.

It's people like you, coffey1, that have seriously f**d up the entire transit picture in this city. Transit funding is a scarce and precious resource and when idiots like you speak up, and politicians like Rob Ford and now John Tory (who I used to admire) lap up your misplaced "anger", you have totally removed any intelligence, logic and rational thinking in the whole thing. This bullshit "woe is me" / attitude of alienation that many of you Scarbourough residents have has totally screwed up the entire picture for the whole city. We're all paying for your bullshit subway to nowhere and will do so for years and years.

Here's the bottom line:
The density and projected ridership for the SSE is not enough.
PLUS
The money cannot be found.
EQUALS (or should equal, in a rational world)
NO DAMN SSE.

SIMPLE. The rest of the world can figure it out, why can't you Scarberians?

"Urgency", "priority", "under-investment", "neglect", "being ignored", whatever the hell else you or your best bud Glen De Baermaker want to call it, all of this HAS NO PLACE IN TRANSIT PLANNING. Transit planning SHOULD ONLY CARE ABOUT density and travel patterns, and the money should be spent to best match that.

Money is PRECIOUS and to squander it YET AGAIN on a white elephant subway in this city is absolutely abominable. You will bankrupt us all, is that what you want?
 

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