Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

Fairness = the subway is a higher priority and fully funded, Eglinton is not

View attachment 81046

We need to add the column for the SRT to LRT conversion - it was in the 2013? (2014?) documents.

I think we should respect the currently signed agreement between Toronto and Metrolinx to convert the SRT to LRT.

 

[Cobra]

My take on this morning session so far...

• City Planning using the city growth and economical argument instead of ridership
• When ridership was brought up, the main defense was the station ridership vs the other stations on the line
• The main sale of the Scarborough network is a "Renaissance" of the Town centre, along with a complete rethinking of the road network and lots to free land for redevelopment. They used what Mississauga is trying to do. Perhaps more on this in the afternoon, but they seem convinced that the subway + Crosstown East+ Smarttrack with a rework of the road system will allow Scarborough Centre to reach its full potential.
• Councillors trying to change the DRL route from Pape to Carlaw is exactly what's wrong with that council.
• Mihevc trying to get a new study for LRT. Once he got his answer that we're looking at a up to 2 years delay, he should have sit down and kept quiet. 2 years delay is a luxury we don't have.
• Keesmaat did implied the increase contribution of the Federal government in the project. I'd like to know if we can submit this extension to the new program for the 50% federal funding.
• Lack of the elevated option...hopefully they discuss it this afternoon
• Interesting fact brought by a councillor that stations around Kennedy, Warden and Victoria Park have big parking lots due to people bypassing the SRT to park near a Bloor-Danforth station...this implies that all that land around those 3 stations could be redevelop if the parking lots were no longer necessary.
• Scarborough Centre is the only city centre not connected by subway.

My initial take is to just build the damn network because another delay of up to 2 years would be an absolute disaster to reevaluate the LRT as an alternative.

Also, I'm of the belief that Scarborough Centre never had the tools to develop into a viable city center where people would want to live and work, hence limiting its potential unlike North York Centre and Eglinton-Yonge. I believe that Scarborough Centre can be viable if the full vision of rethinking the road network, redevelop the new freed up land and this transit network can indeed bring long term results. I was always of the belief that banking everything on downtown was shortsighted when you have the potential of developing these other city centers to make the city as a whole more competitive not only regionally but also internationally.

I was hoping that the elevated option would have had extensive work and research but it doesn't look like it's the case. They seemed to have stuck with the underground option and disregarding the less, which is unfortunate. This city allergy for elevated subway is puzzling when cities like Vancouver and Paris are fully capable of building them at a lower cost and with an attractive design & architecture.

 

[cplchanb]

I was hoping that the elevated option would have had extensive work and research but it doesn't look like it's the case. They seemed to have stuck with the underground option and disregarding the less, which is unfortunate. This city allergy for elevated subway is puzzling when cities like Vancouver and Paris are fully capable of building them at a lower cost and with an attractive design & architecture.

They have been indoctrinated that elevated rail= "eyesore"

 

[sixrings]

if elevated was suggested other scarborough residents would come out calling the plan disrespectful and unfair to scarborough as the latest subway built to Vaughan was underground. Everyone hates scarborough.

 

[Cobra]

if elevated was suggested other scarborough residents would come out calling the plan disrespectful and unfair to scarborough as the latest subway built to Vaughan was underground. Everyone hates scarborough.

I disagree, remember how the Scarborough-Eglinton Crosstown was well received in Scarborough? It was elevated

I think it's more about being connected to the rest of the city and not being isolated than technology...

 

[salsa]

My take on this morning session so far...

• City Planning using the city growth and economical argument instead of ridership
• When ridership was brought up, the main defense was the station ridership vs the other stations on the line
• The main sale of the Scarborough network is a "Renaissance" of the Town centre, along with a complete rethinking of the road network and lots to free land for redevelopment. They used what Mississauga is trying to do. Perhaps more on this in the afternoon, but they seem convinced that the subway + Crosstown East+ Smarttrack with a rework of the road system will allow Scarborough Centre to reach its full potential.
• Councillors trying to change the DRL route from Pape to Carlaw is exactly what's wrong with that council.
• Mihevc trying to get a new study for LRT. Once he got his answer that we're looking at a up to 2 years delay, he should have sit down and kept quiet. 2 years delay is a luxury we don't have.
• Keesmaat did implied the increase contribution of the Federal government in the project. I'd like to know if we can submit this extension to the new program for the 50% federal funding.
• Lack of the elevated option...hopefully they discuss it this afternoon
• Interesting fact brought by a councillor that stations around Kennedy, Warden and Victoria Park have big parking lots due to people bypassing the SRT to park near a Bloor-Danforth station...this implies that all that land around those 3 stations could be redevelop if the parking lots were no longer necessary.
• Scarborough Centre is the only city centre not connected by subway.

That's a pretty good summary. In a nutshell, "it may not be justified now, but we hope it will be in the future. If it can spur development. Eventually."

 

[cplchanb]

I disagree, remember how the Scarborough-Eglinton Crosstown was well received in Scarborough? It was elevated

I think it's more about being connected to the rest of the city and not being isolated than technology...

well, if thats the case why are they still being so rock headed about going back and forth??!! You will never get a perfect scenario so why waste the time
and money to find excalibur? just build the damn thing already whatever it is!

 

[sixrings]

the city really needed to pass a motion which would create a mandatory km or two of subway building every year. Instead we binge build and or fight in the meantime. Its a complete waste of time, money and not how a major city should operate. I wouldn't mind if they built 5km a year of LRT annually either for the roads that will never get a subway. Of course the latest is subways subways subways everywhere even if it doesn't make sense.

 

[cplchanb]

some lady had that in her platform when she campaigned against ford and smitherman 2 elections ago....
didnt do too well.....

 

[sixrings]

doesn't need to be an election platform it could be done now and save us headaches and false promises in the future.

 

[rbt]

well, if thats the case why are they still being so rock headed about going back and forth??!! You will never get a perfect scenario so why waste the time and money to find excalibur? just build the damn thing already whatever it is!

The city doesn't actually have money to build it and the prerequisites (Line 2 SOGR work).

Something in the budget needs to change to accommodate this expenditure, whether that's a reduction in services elsewhere or increase in taxes or a no-strings gift.

The Land Transfer Tax is the only thing keeping this project on the table but since it's on a year-to-year basis they cannot count on it to pay future debt. They need to wait for LTT to eat away at existing debt to make room for this project.

 

[salsa]

John Tory is scrumming with the media again, accusing LRT proponents of being dishonest while spouting more of his own made-up shit.

What Byford actually said: LRT vehicles last 30 years, subway vehicles last "slightly" longer, maybe 40 years. For both modes "at the end of the day everything still needs to be renewed as you go along."

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Why must John Tory lie so much?

 

[cplchanb]

The city doesn't actually have money to build it and the prerequisites (Line 2 SOGR work).

Something in the budget needs to change to accommodate this expenditure, whether that's a reduction in services elsewhere or increase in taxes or a no-strings gift.

The Land Transfer Tax is the only thing keeping this project on the table but since it's on a year-to-year basis they cannot count on it to pay future debt. They need to wait for LTT to eat away at existing debt to make room for this project.

They dont have any money to build the LRT either. And whos to guarantee the price wont go up when the decision is made anyways. The question they should be asking is, how can we find funding now instead of can we change the whole plan and then when the time comes find money then, magically hoping that the costs wont inflate 4 years from now....either way its going to cost billions

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

They dont have any money to build the LRT either. And whos to guarantee the price wont go up when the decision is made anyways. The question they should be asking is, how can we find funding now instead of can we change the whole plan and then when the time comes find money then, magically hoping that the costs wont inflate 4 years from now....either way its going to cost billions

If you haven't realized, the finding funding part is probably the one/only thing that is more contentious than the plan itself.

AoD