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coffey1
Active Member
I know it's not an option. Which is why Im wondering why I read about it every other day in the MEDIA? Even in the Star's tongue and cheek column about accepting the subway it still mentioned it.
Now Metro is attacking Tory this morning as being divisive on this debate because the spoiled babies aren't getting their way to segregate with Transfer City. The attack is shameful. Even a centrist Mayor trying to compromise is "divisive' because he wont give the City's power house it's way.
http://www.metronews.ca/views/toron...-divisiveness-on-the-scarborough-subway-.html
Seriously? The divide is being created and its not by Tory. There are many who just don't get it or see this crap for what it is & likely never will. It's ruthless. And clearly demonstrates the lack of will to pay the true costs of integrating the suburbs in a fair manner.
If this mud slinging on Tory continues the next election is not going to be pretty and we are sure to continue the risk of being set back even further. Just fkn relentless
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Perhaps we should have a plebisite and ask Scarborough voters - how much extra are they willing to pay out of their tax bills. Not the province, not the rest of the city - if you aren't willing to pony up to get to where you think it should be, why should anyone else, above and beyond what's already committed? You can't integrate without demonstrating the willingness to be integrated.
AoD
AoD
coffey1
Active Member
Sure and we can ask the residents around the DRL how much they want to pay as well.
Oh I forgot the narrative were suppose to believe is that the DRL is God's gift to Scarborough so we should just be grateful.
First of all the Fed and Province are paying for most of this project. So whatever the cost is to give a properly integrated design into the current system should be paid for by Toronto. But ya im happy to pay a bit extra for a network which doesn't blatantly segregate people on a different form of transit to the extent of Transfer City. But keep up the good fight
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I totally agree with that for the DRL - or indeed any subway project actually. Not just residents but also businesses. A base portion supplied by the province, feds, the city (general property tax) plus a "local" surtax sounds fair to me.
As to it being high on the priority list - well, Bloor would be what you'd be saying if it wasn't built in the first place.
AoD
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
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When you state as an example of something during an argument about why Scarborough is being picked on and disrespected, people think you are using that as, oh, I don't know, an argument about why Scarborough is being disrespected. It's like the 'everyone else has outdoor rinks except for Scarborough' silliness. Scarborough, as a separate municipality, got rid of outdoor rinks and built arenas in their place. Then residents whinged after amalgamation they had no outdoor rinks and everybody else did.
Scarborough could have paid for a 503 link to West Hill if they had wanted one. They didn't. The fact you and your fellow 'ratepayers' didn't want it is on you, not Toronto.
coffey1
Active Member
Thanks for the cool aside my fellow City neighbor. Those spoiled, rich Scarberians always up to something huh. They think they can have it all.
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WislaHD
Superstar
I agree that Transit City had flaws, but to claim that is was a blatant attempt at segregation is well... the complete opposite of what Transit City was.
Transit City's flaws is that it attempted to bring Scarborough and other suburbs into the fold, focusing on city-building rather than making sure that the LRT lines proposed were actual well-functioning rapid transit lines. David Miller et al wanted to make areas along the LRT look more like St. Clair, more urban and vibrant and focusing on rejuvenation of the suburbs. That was the mission statement, and it wasn't a bad plan when you look at how the majority of Scarborough commuters commute to a destination within Scarborough.
Now don't get me wrong, I think the forced transfers are poor transit planning too, but I can't help but feel that the resentment towards Transit City was largely fueled by resistance to change within Scarborough, and the rhetoric of the 'War on the Car' spurred on by Rob Ford during the election through quips like the 'St. Clair disaster', 'it will rip up roads' or 'get rid of the VRT'. How this got transformed into an us vs. them, downtown elites 'knowing best for Scarborough' is also a product of the Ford era. (downtowners naturally against everything Ford means being against Transit City = being pro-Ford, and maybe the reason why we have this "LRT=good" binary notion from downtowners/lefties)
Anyway, viewing Transit City as evil is not really helpful. It was a plan that proposed a vision for the suburbs. Unless you genuinely believe that St. Clair was a disaster or have no desire for Scarborough to ever see change, then it wasn't a bad plan. It just needed to be tweaked a little to produce better transit results. (Sheppard subway conversion to LRT, elevating Eglinton through Scarborough and interlining the SLRT with the Crosstown to remove the transfer would have made Transit City a win-win-win if you ask me.)
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
This back and forth fighting with coffey1 is not really helpful either. Can't we have a healthy conversation?
justindw
New Member
So, what 6 contiguous kilometres of stops have that low a level of boarding? That's what, Keele to Christie?
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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coffey1
Active Member
Agreed and its why we have Tory to compromise. You know that divisive Mayor as Metroland claims. Hard to have a healthy debate with the Political mudslinging from both sides.
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M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Scarborough will get more car dependant as the rest of the city moves on with its one stop subway that'll probably end up being the only thing that gets built.
crs1026
Senior Member
There's a new thread about Moose Rail that has some interesting application to the Line 2 subway extension.
Suppose the development community were offered some more provident treatment regarding tax and development charges in the area around STC, in exchange for funding and building the new subway extension. Maybe adding a revenue guarantee ie developer earns so much per transit rider transferring from bus to subway at STC for so many years.
That's exactly what this Moose consortium is suggesting be done in the Ottawa area, to build a GO-style commuter network there.
The economics for STC will be different than Moose, but who's to say it wouldn't be attractive overall. There's no reason to be opposed to a deal that puts up private money, so long as it doesn't become a 407 style giveaway. That might be the win-win that makes the subway's price tag acceptable. Government can continue with LRT on Eglinton East, and Sheppard.
- Paul
Suppose the development community were offered some more provident treatment regarding tax and development charges in the area around STC, in exchange for funding and building the new subway extension. Maybe adding a revenue guarantee ie developer earns so much per transit rider transferring from bus to subway at STC for so many years.
That's exactly what this Moose consortium is suggesting be done in the Ottawa area, to build a GO-style commuter network there.
The economics for STC will be different than Moose, but who's to say it wouldn't be attractive overall. There's no reason to be opposed to a deal that puts up private money, so long as it doesn't become a 407 style giveaway. That might be the win-win that makes the subway's price tag acceptable. Government can continue with LRT on Eglinton East, and Sheppard.
- Paul
I don't understand this statement. Forced transfers are a reality with any transit system. If you travel from Finch Station to Kennedy Station you are forced to transfer at Bloor.