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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

junctionist said:
I disagree. All these towers built from the late 1960s through the 2000s
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That would be my point....if you consider that what development there is has been the product of almost fifty years' worth of subway 'stimulus', it's just a collection of one building every few years. Some parts - such as Mabelle - were never connected to the subway and are separated from it by the railway tracks. There is only one grocery store, in the same strip mall that was there in 1960.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
That would be my point....if you consider that what development there is has been the product of almost fifty years' worth of subway 'stimulus', it's just a collection of one building every few years. Some parts - such as Mabelle - were never connected to the subway and are separated from it by the railway tracks. There is only one grocery store, in the same strip mall that was there in 1960.

- Paul
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If not for the subway, there would be a subdivision of ranch bungalows there like all over Etobicoke for the past 60 years. Your point was that the subway didn't do anything for development, which was wrong. There's a collection of high-density buildings from the 1960s, 1980s and 2000s in close proximity to the subway stations. The towers on Mabelle are a short walk from the subway and built there because the subway made the area attractive to high-density development.
 
coffey1 said:
We'd be moving forward if it wasn't for the City's Transit rich Party's "my way or the highway" stance towards any other option outside of Segregated City. When you keep your heads in the sand and refuse to listen to the people outside of your own area and refuse to work together for a comprised solution youll certainly be at a standstill. But why share in the blame when you can blame Scarborough and control that message without a fair debate? Id love to see a better solution but unfortunately the Left has yet to back down from repeating anything but their poorly designed plan. There is a high level of denial that this really is the case.

When it comes to the media. You'll never get it. Nor would you ever care to. This a HUGE issue that has been ignored. The media, is beyond irresponsible when reporting on events within Scarborough compared to other areas of the City, which is likely a bi-product of a bigger issue in that they have Politcal motives for the areas outside of Scarborough and Toronto's suburbs.

It's about the start of some inclusiveness, respect and acceptance for the City as a whole. Sorry these type of words and the cost associated to obtain them offend some of you
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Riverdale Rink Rat said:
C'mon, you're being beyond ridiculous. I went for a long bike ride through 'west Scarborough' (Clairlea) a couple of days ago, and there's zero chance any of the good burghers of there, or Guildwood, or West Hill, or the neighbourhoods near the Zoo have any need or want for the 'respect' of a subway to STC. I doubt they even think in those terms. The lack of respect for Scarborough is in your head, and nowhere else.
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The subway debate is entirely about the people between Sheppard, Pharmacy and Markham Roads aka Central Scarborough. People living near victoria park and far east where you were RRR don't have a dog in this and don't care. Central Scarborough is also one of the poorest parts of the city. I am betting coffey1 is from the borders I just described.
 
The city should be building the subway to the far reaches of the city with elevated structures and trenches like in NYC outside of Manhattan. The costs of subway construction can be brought down to LRT levels if we stop trying to give everyone overengineered gold-plated infrastructure. Who decided that the subway would always have to go underground and the stations would have to resemble airport terminals?

Build subways like we did 60 years ago. If you want social justice, give Scarborough what Rosedale has: a low-cost subway built in a trench beside houses that go for $2 million. Rosedale doesn't have high density, but it has a subway that was relatively inexpensive next to what we build today. That's why we accomplished a lot in the 1950s and 1960s--we used our resources more efficiently.
 
Before Jane Jacobs every NiMBY did not have the power to hold planning hostage.

Back then, engineering was the critical component. Now it is discussions, EAs, and influence by various groups and organizations.
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
I never understood why that area was a wasteland for so long
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W. K. Lis said:
Six Points (Kipling/Dundas/Bloor) is also undergoing a reconfiguration away from the current underpass/overpass want-to-be highway interchange to a more pedestrian friendly road layout. See link and link. There's a thread also at this link.
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I expect this to be the next major growth node, once this reconfiguration is done. The entire stretch from Cloverdale Mall to Islington on Dundas West can end up being a developed, urban strip.

I bet you a subway expansion with stops at Shorncliffe and East Mall would be a very cheap 1.6km expansion. Probably with much more development potential than at STC. That is why I am frustrated with the SSE, it is a lot of money to connect a center as far to the east as Square One is to the west, with not that great development potential compared to the rest of the city.

We are insane if we aren't looking at the above-grade option along the SRT corridor for the subway.
 
JGHali said:
You mean like the SLRT with vastly improved transfer at Kennedy? Already a thing.
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Yah but Scarborough politicians (and consequently our mayor and Premier) wants us to spend more money to eliminate the transfer altogether.

Which is fine, whatever. There just has got to be better ways of doing that than a $4 billion, 6km tunnel with one station. I am sure there are engineering challenges to using the SRT corridor that will make it costlier than the LRT, but even so, it has to be cheaper than $4 billion!
 
crs1026 said:
Etobicoke's subway is a good example of a subway that didn't do anything for development. Six Points remains a wasteland. The GO service is what got development started there. And it's just as arduous a bus ride to get downtown from Rexdale or Albion as it is to reach STC from north Scarborough.

As for the Lakeshore streetcar, it isn't seamless, and it hasn't fed development either. Again, it's no better an option to reach downtown than the McCowan bus. The only development west of Humber Bay is around the Long Branch GO station, where some industrial land has been repurposed into town homes. Again, GO, not the streetcar accomplished that. Humber Bay got developed on the basis of access to the Gardiner and Lakeshore Blvd. Connectivity to the subway is poor.

The Kingston Road streetcar to Birchmount got cut back when - 1954? That's a bit old to cite as anti-Scarboro sentiment.

- Paul
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Where did I say anything about anti-Scarborough sentiment with the streetcar? I just stated a fact that it ends at Scarborough's border. As I was explaining why Etobicoke isn't as pissed as Scarborough when it come to lack of transit since some of you think it a good comparable. Only certain areas are. Etobicoke certainly has area of need but its not exactly the same.

Also I think development around the subway stops are growing just fine. Do you really want them built up 100% immediately? Last time I check Kipling and Islington had multiple condo projects on the go. Although development around SCC is at a standstill because of this drama it's already decently built up with the crap RT. But many here are still convinced it covered in bungalows.

The location of the LRT transfers on the SLRT and especially on Sheppard are not in any fashion a fair way to integrate such a large area. Its the lowest class design and many just refuse to accept it didn't pass the test. An all out battle thru the media & Politicians with subways in their ridings have been fighting relentlessly to stuff a poorly designed segregated LRT plan when 2 elections have clearly said "no thanks". This is part of the Anti Scarborough sentiment. There is sheer denial and this isn't good for anyone as we need to move forward.

Keesmat & Tory seem to be working on compromises here. Which is great and gives some hope we can move forward.
 
pstogios said:
That is because one side of the debate is completely irrational.
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Both sides actually. The denial is real.

Donkey's on one side repeat:
Transfers to short stubways are great designs.... Hee Haw Hee Haw
Transfers located one stop ahead of a planned "Growth Center" is a great design... Hee Haw Hee Haw

Just for you I wouldn't leave out the Donkeys on the other side repeating:
Subways, subways, subways... Hee Haw Hee Haw.

They're all a bunch of Donkeys that cant put a quality integrated plan using multiple technologies. Does it cost more?. Yep. Sorry there's a bit more cost to an integated plan. For all his blame here in this forum.. Even Ford was willing to try to compromise part subway and part seamless LRT.

People really need to let go of the piss poor parts of Transfer City. It wasn't all bad but was heavily flawed. The quicker we move on and the flaws are improved or atleast compromised in the most cost effective manners the quicker we can move forward. If the media and the "transit have" Politicians decide to keep their heads in the sand we're headed for another brutal election & that will no be good for anyone.
 
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