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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

LNahid2000 said:
People don't vote based on a single issue. You can't say anything about what people want transit wise based on election results.
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While it is true that people do not vote on a single issue, it is remarkable that prominent subway proponents very often do well in Scarborough ridings.

In contrast, only a few subway opponents got elected, and even those are long-time councillors that enjoy the incumbent advantage.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
But Scarborough will never stop making a stink until we give them a subway. We should just cave, build both subways and move on.
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IMO, two subways into Scarborough would be an overkill. That will not improve the accord amongst the councillors; rather, will feed the ambitions of other communities and they will start demanding their own subways.

One subway into Scarborough is reasonable because Scarborough has the worst transit situation at present. If they want the second subway, it can't happen before DRL is completed.
 
APTA-2048 said:
The TTC did look at that and I believe they estimated the cost would be $600 million. There were also technical challenges that needed to be overcome.
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Studied it. Sure. Never went anywhere seriously. No detailed study and no inclusion in the Sheppard East plan. The LRT would be an easier sell with that $500 million conversion. In-fill stations like Willowdale would be cheaper.

Rainforest said:
IMO, two subways into Scarborough would be an overkill. ....
One subway into Scarborough is reasonable because Scarborough has the worst transit situation at present...
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If they build the SSE, Sheppard subway is redundant. And residents will understand if that goes LRT. The transfer at Don Mills will be an irritant like Kennedy. I'm really hoping they go for conversion.
 
Rainforest said:
IMO, two subways into Scarborough would be an overkill. That will not improve the accord amongst the councillors; rather, will feed the ambitions of other communities and they will start demanding their own subways.

One subway into Scarborough is reasonable because Scarborough has the worst transit situation at present. If they want the second subway, it can't happen before DRL is completed.
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kEiThZ said:
Studied it. Sure. Never went anywhere seriously. No detailed study and no inclusion in the Sheppard East plan. The LRT would be an easier sell with that $500 million conversion. In-fill stations like Willowdale would be cheaper.



If they build the SSE, Sheppard subway is redundant. And residents will understand if that goes LRT. The transfer at Don Mills will be an irritant like Kennedy. I'm really hoping they go for conversion.
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People will still complain if we only build one now. Then the conversation becomes "North Scarborough is being screwed!" Nope...build both of them and lets move on.
LNahid2000 said:
Crosstown East may have to be scrapped to pay for the extra $1 billion for the Scarborough subway. It was added back because eliminating 2 stops saved $1 billion, but now those savings have disappeared.
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It won't be. It will be the one stop extravaganza or nothing at this point.
 
I like how when it was LRT on the table people were fighting for them to change it to a Subway extension. Now that its scheduled as a subway extension people are like we cant change our minds again, just build the damn thing no matter how much it costs and how few people it will carry. Im pretty sure if it swung back to LRT the pro subway people wouldn't be like well I don't like LRT but they have to build something so I am going to just give it a rest. So I am pretty confused why they are telling the LRT crowd which I really think is the build appropriate transit based on ridership crowd and limited finances, to just close their eyes accept this and a big tax increase as a bonus.
 
2, 3, 4 years ago, I said that there were three choices for Scarborough Transit.
  1. A 3 to 4 stop B-D subway extension to Sheppard along one of several alignment choices.
  2. The Transit City version of LRT with transfer at Kennedy - which has been rejected by enough people that it will just result in delays, wasted money and eventually a subway 3 or 4 stop subway.
  3. A compromise solution that connects Scarborough to the Yonge spine without transfer.

Now, the options have changed a bit.
  1. A 1 stop B-D subway extension along McCowan route to STC.
  2. The Transit City version of LRT with transfer at Kennedy - which has been rejected by enough people that it will just result in delays, wasted money and eventually a subway.
  3. A compromise solution that connects Scarborough to the Yonge spine without transfer.
 
We wasted TIME and MONEY changing from LRT to Subway but pro subway people didn't care. Im sure LRT people wont care if they waste more time and money changing back to a LRT.
 
As stated above, all they are doing is wasting time and money to still get a subway. Either find a compromise or quit the delays.

As they say, if you keep doing the same thing and expect a different result . . . .
 
IM ok with flip flopping and nothing being built. Don't act like you are being a saint getting what you want and telling other people they are holding up your big present. By the way you don't need to be Nostradamus to realize people would prefer subway over lrt. In fact I am sure Finch would rather a subway as well and so would have eglinton. Subways for everyone. If only there was someone who would walk around yelling "subways, subways, subways" then we would have subways everywhere.
 
sixrings said:
By the way you don't need to be Nostradamus to realize people would prefer subway over lrt.
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Patently different. Finch and Eglinton aren't extensions of existing lines.

In any event, if they want to go back to LRT, the way to sell it, is to offer substantially more and in a more integrated fashion. Build both the SLRT and the SMLRT. Make them both through services. No transfers at Kennedy. And advertise the fact that there are no transfers at Kennedy. Since the change over, there's been very little coverage of this (Eglinton - SLRT through service). And part of me suspects politicians don't want to talk about the no-transfer situation lest they set themselves up for a fight at Don Mills. But LRT is far more palatable without the transfers and this should be pushed more.
 
This debate has gotten very tiresome. Especially Coffey's rants on the media. That being said, he is right, LRT projects in Scarborough are failures in transit planning, forcing transfers on the same corridor is ridiculous. If only we were to look at the situation and analyze the existing infrastructure we have, but no, we are going to spend multiples of billions of dollors on a subway instead.

All this when the DRL is needed, far more so.

sixrings said:
it would be all grade separated for relatively cheap... I understand why sheppard, finch are surface but eglinton could easily have been grade separated for not that much extra.
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I'd include a spur line on Eglinton West to AAC and Eglinton East to Malvern. That way we can double frequency on the middle portion of Eglinton.
 
WislaHD said:
That being said, he is right, LRT projects in Scarborough are failures in transit planning, forcing transfers on the same corridor is ridiculous.
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Forcing transfers on the same corridor happens on other transit systems as well, some which we consider world class.

We can't just extend the subway outward forever...there will have to be a same direction transfer at some point.
 
did we ever pay that cancellation fee for the lrt order when we decided to build the subway instead. Or if we reverted would we save that money?
 
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