Maltesefalcon
New Member
If the rail division is actually sold along with the last of the commercial aircraft division, I'd be reminded of the line from Office Space...
"What would you say you do here?"
"What would you say you do here?"
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dowlingm
Senior Member
The point that FliegerFaust makes but CBC does not is crucial - as with the failed Siemens-Alstom proposal, the EU Commission will investigate to form an opinion as to whether the merger is harmful to the EU market, or impose conditions which may or may not be acceptable to the parties.
Amare
Senior Member
To be honest, I wish we could sell off the Bombardier family and execs instead of any more Bombardier business units but I digress.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
So, is Thunder Bay doomed? Alstrom Canada can likely produce all of Central Canada’s LRTs at its existing plants.
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Richard White
Senior Member
The writing is and always has been on the wall for Thunder Bay. The relied heavily on Bombardier and now they are likely out of there.
Even the logging industry cannot save them only mitigate the damages.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Alstrom will quickly pick up the Bombardier family’s predilection for strong arming taxpayer money to keep the Thunder Bay plant running.
dowlingm
Senior Member
It will be interesting to see what Alstom considers for consolidation if this transaction clears.
For example: the Flexity Freedom competes more or less directly with Citadis Spirit for North American “standard” light rail projects, whereas Alstom is unlikely to offer TTC an alternative downtown car when it owns the Outlook. In theory that might be bad news for Millhaven but it is may be difficult to walk away from the Edmonton and Eglinton contracts, and Outlook orders might not be forthcoming until those are complete anyway, and Millhaven has built Outlooks. Could put Waterloo in a sticky position if they need to order more vehicles after the other orders are completed.
Vancouver are probably feeling quite nervous about what the future holds for ICTS, and Alstom might propose something more like Montreal’s Azurs for Ontario Line.
Subway cars and bilevels might be moved to La Pocatiere I suppose. Again, Alstom won’t need to innovate for a Line 2 replacement order with the Movia design in their pocket
For example: the Flexity Freedom competes more or less directly with Citadis Spirit for North American “standard” light rail projects, whereas Alstom is unlikely to offer TTC an alternative downtown car when it owns the Outlook. In theory that might be bad news for Millhaven but it is may be difficult to walk away from the Edmonton and Eglinton contracts, and Outlook orders might not be forthcoming until those are complete anyway, and Millhaven has built Outlooks. Could put Waterloo in a sticky position if they need to order more vehicles after the other orders are completed.
Vancouver are probably feeling quite nervous about what the future holds for ICTS, and Alstom might propose something more like Montreal’s Azurs for Ontario Line.
Subway cars and bilevels might be moved to La Pocatiere I suppose. Again, Alstom won’t need to innovate for a Line 2 replacement order with the Movia design in their pocket
rbt
Senior Member
Both of those contracts will be completed before Alstom knows what they want to do. It'll be 1 year to financial close (minimum) for EU, USA, Canada, etc. to approve the purchase, and a couple years after that before they work out where all the excess capacity is. Excess capacity isn't always obvious to spot as an idle plant might be required to obtain a future sale, and another operating full out may not have any side benefits at all.
Existing contracts will largely be finished where they are simply because they'll be nearly done before Alstom has a good handle on what they have.
drum118
Superstar
I just posted this in the Ontario Line thread that was sent to me and could have an effect what stay open or close plant wise down the road. Since Alstom is setting up a plant in Brampton that is about 3 hour drive away from Millhaven that was just expanded and only built in the 70's compare to Thunder Bay in the 30's, Millhaven has a better chance staying open than TB unless Ford wants to throw away money to keep TB open..
Both Edmonton and Metrolinx orders will be completed this year end or early 2021. TB only has 4471 & 78 Flexity to be ship to TTC as well 4401 that will be done around June and X coaches for GO that will be completed sometime this year. That its for both plants.
Is TTC welling to ship more cars to BBD Quebec plant for weld fixing considering it taking close to a year to be done compare to the 19 week turn around?? TTC is still miss 3 cars at this time.
4406 arrived Dec 19, 2019 and still in the service Bay
4405 arrived February 3, 2020 and was out all day Thursday as well all night doing its 3rd testing. In the service bay at this time.
4601 has been sitting on the yard service track for close to 2 weeks after arriving January 19, 2020 and no idea why.
If TTC plans to put Flexity's back on 505 at the end of March, going to be short cars as there is a long list of MIA cars already in service with some being out of service from 3-12 months that buses will still be needed to help various routes.
Both Edmonton and Metrolinx orders will be completed this year end or early 2021. TB only has 4471 & 78 Flexity to be ship to TTC as well 4401 that will be done around June and X coaches for GO that will be completed sometime this year. That its for both plants.
Is TTC welling to ship more cars to BBD Quebec plant for weld fixing considering it taking close to a year to be done compare to the 19 week turn around?? TTC is still miss 3 cars at this time.
4406 arrived Dec 19, 2019 and still in the service Bay
4405 arrived February 3, 2020 and was out all day Thursday as well all night doing its 3rd testing. In the service bay at this time.
4601 has been sitting on the yard service track for close to 2 weeks after arriving January 19, 2020 and no idea why.
If TTC plans to put Flexity's back on 505 at the end of March, going to be short cars as there is a long list of MIA cars already in service with some being out of service from 3-12 months that buses will still be needed to help various routes.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Or Ottawa - FedNor and that type of thing. The Kingston area is probably in better economic shape than the N/W.
drum118
Superstar
Anyone know what up with 4601 that been sitting on the service track in the yard the last 2 weeks considering it arrived January 21, 2019? It should be in service now.
4406 is not tracking anymore for the last day or so and was saying last seen 2 days ago when it was tracking. Arrived December 19, 2019.
4405 was last seen a day ago after it arrived February 3, 2020 and has spent most of its time in the service bay.
I am assuming 4407 is still sitting in Montreal due rail closure.
That was a nice PR Photo of 4471 sitting in TB plant that was to be ship to TTC since no reports that it been ship or off loaded so far.
How many buses will be use in place of streetcars per the CEO Report??
4406 is not tracking anymore for the last day or so and was saying last seen 2 days ago when it was tracking. Arrived December 19, 2019.
4405 was last seen a day ago after it arrived February 3, 2020 and has spent most of its time in the service bay.
I am assuming 4407 is still sitting in Montreal due rail closure.
That was a nice PR Photo of 4471 sitting in TB plant that was to be ship to TTC since no reports that it been ship or off loaded so far.
How many buses will be use in place of streetcars per the CEO Report??
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
I imagine Altstrom won’t honour the original low ball pricing from Bombardier. There’s only two players making LRTs in North America; Alstrom and Siemens, and neither will be pushed into making below market offers.
Before Bombardier’s acquisition the TTC estimated 60 additional vehicles would cost of $361 million. I expect now this cost will be closer to $700 million.
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thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
4601 likely had some sort of failure. It's on a track with cars that are MIA. As for 4471/4478, they better hurry because Dundas is supposed to be with cars come March 29th
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Both of them could be being prepared to be shipped by road much like one was when there was a posable rail strike and also how the first couple were delivered to Toronto before the unloading spur was in place.
drum118
Superstar
Why ship by truck when CP is doing the shipping like the other cars and don't know of any stoppage for them from TB??
THE CEO is calling for 25% spare ratio and that leaves about 150 cars for service and here come the buses. At the rate cars from Quebec are arriving and have yet to reenter service, expect the same issue as the Quebec cars, but not as bad for the cars from TB.
I see the 35,000 failure rate is now one year from delivery of car 4603, not the 60th cars as noted from day one.