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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

so will 4471 be written off as flooded? Looks like the water reached half its height so I assume everything could be fried inside

Latest as best I can tell:

2vvy79F
 
You know it's Bombardier when despite being majorly flooded everyone at Leslie Barns is probably scratching their heads right now and saying "it really doesn't look any worse than before . . . "
It's not salt water. Poop and flushed goldfish aside, it can probably be cleaned up without a trip to Thunder Bay. Fuses are designed to protect the electrical systems, and besides, with the flat floor, aren't most of the mechanical bits in the roof?
 
It's not salt water. Poop and flushed goldfish aside, it can probably be cleaned up without a trip to Thunder Bay. Fuses are designed to protect the electrical systems, and besides, with the flat floor, aren't most of the mechanical bits in the roof?

There are plenty of pictures on Twitter of the two cars, sitting with water up to the windows, but with the interior lights still on and the next-stop devices still functioning. So yeah, the things are tough, and many components eg frame, bogies, trucks etc will simply need pressure washing.

There will be more serious things. I would guess that the traction motors are mostly shot, and perhaps the cab circuitry and any under-floor circuit boards will be partly or totally fried. Those things can be dried, tested, and/or replaced. I wonder how much of the sub-floor and interior panels are water-absorbent and may be warped or otherwise in need of replacement. And are there conduits or wiring harnesses that are compromised electrically.

So, a fair bit of teardown and rework is no doubt required, even if nothing major will be bent or structurally unsound.

- Paul
 
I don't want the operator to risk safety or their jobs. I suggest it's time for some formal SOPs for floods or flood warnings.

There is an SOP for flooding. If water is 3 inches above the rail, stop and contact CIS.

The water was not yet that high when the car started through the underpass. It probably would have made it across safely had the auto not become disabled in front of it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
There are plenty of pictures on Twitter of the two cars, sitting with water up to the windows, but with the interior lights still on and the next-stop devices still functioning. So yeah, the things are tough, and many components eg frame, bogies, trucks etc will simply need pressure washing.

There will be more serious things. I would guess that the traction motors are mostly shot, and perhaps the cab circuitry and any under-floor circuit boards will be partly or totally fried. Those things can be dried, tested, and/or replaced. I wonder how much of the sub-floor and interior panels are water-absorbent and may be warped or otherwise in need of replacement. And are there conduits or wiring harnesses that are compromised electrically.

So, a fair bit of teardown and rework is no doubt required, even if nothing major will be bent or structurally unsound.

- Paul
Having toured the Leslie Barns at Doors Open Toronto, I was impressed with the mechanical and maintenance capabilities there. I am sure they'll have the two damaged cars stripped and tested by end of month, latest. It also helps that the Leslie Barns sit mostly idle for lack of vehicles.
 
There is an SOP for flooding. If water is 3 inches above the rail, stop and contact CIS.

The water was not yet that high when the car started through the underpass. It probably would have made it across safely had the auto not become disabled in front of it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Then change the SOP. If heavy rains are predicted (and they were), do not enter flood prone underpasses unless you have a clear run to the other side. If this can not be assured, stop the vehicle and call for support. The TTC field staff or TPS can then clear traffic at the half dozen spots where streetcars go below grade outside of a ROW.

If the water was less than 3 inches, what disabled the automobile in front?
 
It's not salt water. Poop and flushed goldfish aside, it can probably be cleaned up without a trip to Thunder Bay. Fuses are designed to protect the electrical systems, and besides, with the flat floor, aren't most of the mechanical bits in the roof?

While initial reports indicated the flooding was the result of a burst water main, and the comment above implies the flooding resulted from a broken sanitary sewer line, in all probability, the water backing up into the underpass was from the City's storm sewer system. The underpass being the low point in the area, when during a downpour the storm sewers get overloaded, they will back up either into basements, or in other low point locations similar to this, out of the storm drain manhole cover. And there was a major downpour at the time.

So very unlikely contamination from toilets or other human waste - the big issue here would be the typical problem of storm water runoff contaminated by animal and bird feces - the same stuff which has a history of contaminating Toronto's beaches after a major rainfall.
 
While initial reports indicated the flooding was the result of a burst water main, and the comment above implies the flooding resulted from a broken sanitary sewer line, in all probability, the water backing up into the underpass was from the City's storm sewer system. The underpass being the low point in the area, when during a downpour the storm sewers get overloaded, they will back up either into basements, or in other low point locations similar to this, out of the storm drain manhole cover. And there was a major downpour at the time.

So very unlikely contamination from toilets or other human waste - the big issue here would be the typical problem of storm water runoff contaminated by animal and bird feces - the same stuff which has a history of contaminating Toronto's beaches after a major rainfall.

Not quite accurate. While the inner suburbs are largely separated sewers more than 90% of sewers in the 'old City' are combined.

Meaning storm water flows into the sanitary sewer. This is why you get the contamination warnings for 48 hours after a heavy rain fall.

Even where sewers are separated, if they have a flow-line down to Ashbridges or Humber treatment plants, the water will flow through combined sewers at some point.

There are dozens of combined sewer overflows in our ravine parks, and several out along the Lake as well.

I don't have the sewershed map for that particular area; but I would be very surprised if those aren't combined sewers.
 
Not quite accurate. While the inner suburbs are largely separated sewers more than 90% of sewers in the 'old City' are combined.
90% in the 1970s perhaps.

They've been slowly separating them from at least the 1960s!

Even at that, what flooded is very likely to be anything other than almost entirely rain or ground water, given how much dilution there'd be!

I'd think there'd be far more contamination issues anytime someone vomited!
 
No kidding. That particular underpass has been there since what - 1913? It predictably floods in every heavy rain. At the very least, paint a “do not enter if water is this high” marker on the wall. Instructing the operator to go ahead and take a chance is lame - and potentially an OHSA violation.

- Paul

The King Street West underpass was lowered, more sewer grates added, and storm water reservoirs added more than a couple of decades ago. Used to flood after almost thunderstorm. The result was less severe flooding, until this downpour. Wonder if the reservoirs were not cleaned out because of budget cuts?
 
90% in the 1970s perhaps.

They've been slowly separating them from at least the 1960s!

Even at that, what flooded is very likely to be anything other than almost entirely rain or ground water, given how much dilution there'd be!

I'd think there'd be far more contamination issues anytime someone vomited!

Excuse me?

If there's anything I can't stand its someone who has no clue what he's talking about, attempting to correct me.

Would you like an introduction to the person in charge of the City's Wet Weatherflow Masterplan @ Toronto Water? Because I can arrange that.

I've known him in a professional capacity for more than a decade.

I was involved with the creation of said plan.

Further, there have been very few separations done in the last 2 decades.

23% of the entire City of Toronto is on combined sewers as of this year.

That area is located almost entirely in the old City of Toronto along w/some pockets of East York, York and south Etobicoke/Scarborough.

Land area wise, if you do that math, that number gets you to about 90% of the areas in question.

I have seen the maps, and I know the outfalls. Dozens of them.

Kindly do not correct people unless you KNOW the facts.]

Let me add one more thing, I've seen the E-Coli Counts too........if you want to go bathe in it, that's your business, but I strongly caution against it.

Addition: I can also state matter-of-factly there is no plan for universal sewer separation in the old City. It was discussed and decided against as too costly.

The current plan involves a small number of separations, but features massive new sewers/tunnel to catch the runoff, hold it till after a rainfall, then pump in to Ashbridges once there is capacity for treatment.

Phase 1 will be begin construction this fall and is tied to the project you can now see at Ashbridges that removed the hill w/trees in favour of new pumping station buildings on the main plant site.

The phase 1 pipe goes from Don Mills/DVP (foot of Coxwell Trunk Sewer) along the DVP corridor then heads east near the base of the Parkway back to the plant.

Once that section is complete, a second phase will follow Taylor Creek to approximately Warden Avenue.
 
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Not quite accurate. While the inner suburbs are largely separated sewers more than 90% of sewers in the 'old City' are combined.

Meaning storm water flows into the sanitary sewer. This is why you get the contamination warnings for 48 hours after a heavy rain fall.

Even where sewers are separated, if they have a flow-line down to Ashbridges or Humber treatment plants, the water will flow through combined sewers at some point.

There are dozens of combined sewer overflows in our ravine parks, and several out along the Lake as well.

I don't have the sewershed map for that particular area; but I would be very surprised if those aren't combined sewers.

So while our building (we live in the area) has separate sanitary and storm sewer systems (including a storm water management cistern) with separate lines going out of the building - that would mean that both our sanitary and storm sewer lines could be connecting into a City combined sanitary and storm sewer line. If so - kind of defeats the purpose of having separate lines throughout our building - but it does position things should the City get around, at some future date, installing separate storm sewer lines in this area.
 

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