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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

JayBeeGooner said:
The delivery for the KC and Cincinnati CAF streetcars are delayed too. Parts from the same manufacturer?
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No, the parts were from else where, mainly USA, since its a 60% US buy and having issues at the plant.
 
nfitz said:
The big issue for Bombardier doesn't seem to be the work being done in Thunder Bay, it's the quality of the parts coming into that assembly facility.

So Alstrom would have the same issues, if the plant where they are making the materials to be assembled in Ottawa has the same issues as the Bombardier plants outside of Ontario supplying the Thunder Bay plant.
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That's true. But my point is, they're not having those same kind of delays. I did some digging, and Alstom is having some parts manufactured in Sao Paolo, with overall vehicle manufacturing being done in Hornell, NY, before final assembly is done in Ottawa. So yes, I guess they're subject to the same "developing market" parts quality issues, but there have been no reports of that thus far. That same plant also just got a huge contract to build the next generation of HSR vehicles for the NEC.
 
gweed123 said:
That's true. But my point is, they're not having those same kind of delays. I did some digging, and Alstom is having some parts manufactured in Sao Paolo, with overall vehicle manufacturing being done in Hornell, NY, before final assembly is done in Ottawa. So yes, I guess they're subject to the same "developing market" parts quality issues, but there have been no reports of that thus far. That same plant also just got a huge contract to build the next generation of HSR vehicles for the NEC.
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From what I understand, most of the work being done in Ottawa is electrical and finishing, with no welding taking place. This seems very similar to the Bombardier process taking place in THhunder Bay, but instead of Mexico, parts are coming from Hornell New York.
 
I wonder how the damages the TTC is seeking payment for will be calculated (assuming the TTC wins more than the bare minimum as negotiated in the contract). Would lost revenues (from overcapacity and retired streetcars precluding ridership growth) be something the TTC could win compensation for? I know it's something that people have been discussing for months but is there a mechanism whereby the TTC could force Bombardier to either pay for the 60 car option or have it detached from the current order, transferred to a new company and Bombardier would then cover the costs above and beyond the current price of the 60 car option. Also, what happens in the case of a bailout for Bombardier?

*Oh and to add, does anyone know what the penalties are in the ION contract? And the general Metrolinx order? I can't remember if that has been tendered yet or if the ION order is a part of the Metrolinx one.
 
It's a legal process. One side makes an outlandish claim. Then the otherside makes an outlandish claim. And their lawyers negotiate without prejudice to come to a deal. If no deal is reached, they go back to the outlandish positions, and go to court.

wolfewood said:
*Oh and to add, does anyone know what the penalties are in the ION contract? And the general Metrolinx order? I can't remember if that has been tendered yet or if the ION order is a part of the Metrolinx one.
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The Ion order is an option that was taken up on the Metrolinx order. The Metrolinx order is an option that was taken up on the TTC one. There was (and will be) only one tender - the TTC one.
 
wolfewood said:
I wonder how the damages the TTC is seeking payment for will be calculated (assuming the TTC wins more than the bare minimum as negotiated in the contract). Would lost revenues (from overcapacity and retired streetcars precluding ridership growth) be something the TTC could win compensation for? I know it's something that people have been discussing for months but is there a mechanism whereby the TTC could force Bombardier to either pay for the 60 car option or have it detached from the current order, transferred to a new company and Bombardier would then cover the costs above and beyond the current price of the 60 car option. Also, what happens in the case of a bailout for Bombardier?

*Oh and to add, does anyone know what the penalties are in the ION contract? And the general Metrolinx order? I can't remember if that has been tendered yet or if the ION order is a part of the Metrolinx one.
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The TTC wants Bombardier to pay for the overhauling and refurbishing of its old streetcars. $34 million is the figure they're working to refurbish 30 streetcars.
 
@nfitz - Huh, I thought they would've split the orders, if only because the TTC order required specialized cars and the Metrolinx models would be largely standardized.

@W. K. Lis - Is that all though? And I'm guessing the $34 million is on top of the already negotiated contractual penalties the TTC will be seeking (if they haven't started already)?
 
wolfewood said:
@nfitz - Huh, I thought they would've split the orders, if only because the TTC order required specialized cars and the Metrolinx models would be largely standardized.
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The did negotiate pricing on the Metrolinx option. And remember, when they started that tender, the assumption was that TTC would be procuring, not Metrolinx. In the end, I expect it was an excuse to not retender it - which would have had a risk that Bombardier would have increased their price, given how much lower their bid was than the next bid.
 
I expect to see a back charge of $100 million plus at the end of the day for TTC alone.

What happens if the cars don't reach 35,000 km by the time the 60th car shows up from the current 12,000 km now for failure???
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Bombardier has reportedly turned down the Canadian government's offer for aid, allegedly due to disagreement over governance.
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Or, perhaps, due to the fact that what was being asked for was too much to give up considering they seem to be coming out of the woods....if the rumoured Delta order for Cseries planes happens before the end of April they will have surpassed their initial target of 300 firm orders before the plane goes into service and with such a large order (on the heals of the Air Canada order) you may see more of the existing orders convert their options to firm status (as Air Baltic did this week) to protect delivery slots.....there has been a positive shift in momentum lately for their order book and they are no longer negotiating from a position of hemorrhaging under the board room table.
 
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