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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

thettctransitfanatic

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I have not heard that the TTC has even contemplated getting rid of all streetcars for several decades. Good though that they plan to buy more, they REALLY are needed as the King Project clearly shows that "If you put them into service (regularly), people will come."

A la King Pilot should be an example on why we should countine to keep streetcars. I really think DoFo hacked this person's Twitter, or told the dude what to say. I have never heard the TTC say this either.
 

crs1026

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The budget document only has 100 cars with deliveries starting in 2025, noting that this would lead to less buses in service in 2026.
This is horrific news - it means they've killed the extra 60 cars which Bombardier could have delivered by 2021, and it means another 6 years of bustitutions.
Why they simply couldn't have pulled the trigger on 30 or 40 of those cars I don't know. At $3.5 million as the option price for additional cars - compared to $7.5 million a car for the second lowest bidder last time (all prices in 2010 dollars), they could easily be paying $750 million for 100 cars instead of $210 million for 60 cars.

I can't fault the logic of your math. But I wonder if there are things left unsaid.

Knowing they aren't placing the order this year, it makes sense to put the bigger placeholder in the capital list so there is no illusion that anything less in capacity will do. There is no guarantee they will get all of that, now or whenever, but no harm in asking big.

The report is silent about what reparations from Bombardier might entail. They may know things we don't, or that settlement might count against the 100, and if the cost per car is less than waiting til 2025, the case for that as settlement is compelling. So they may be confident that money might well flow.

My big reservation is, every time I hear about an upcoming roadwork or trackwork project that will mean x months of bustitution, I wonder if we will see a day when there is actually a surplus of Flexities. This is especially likely when (optimism) the RL gets started, and the 501 ceases to be operable as a discrete line. Other routes will absorb the excess cars, perhaps.... but there will be hell to pay if some sit idle. I would like to see a 5-year to 10-year plotting of major track and road projects with bustitution impacts, before I agree that more cars are truly needed. If we bustitute 20% of the system every year for one reason or another, we only need 80% of the total streetcar capacity to meet our needs.

- Paul
 
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steveintoronto

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^ Co-incident to
I wonder if we will see a day when there is actually a surplus of Flexities.
I was at the 506 High Park loop today with Big Black Lab for his deep philosophical leg lifting discussions with his ilk at the off-leash, and noticed the survey crew plotting on the asphalt track to the north of the present loop. I asked "Wazzup?" It's to expand the loop and reduce some of the kinks to allow the longer Flexities their due...come that imaginary time in the future when such will grace the rails of the College line.

I hope I'm still alive to see it...It's an excellent theory.
 

drum118

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Looks like 4521 is ready for service on Sat, as its in the yard on track 14 after being here 17 days.

4522 was off loaded today with 4523 on Monday and 4524 later in the week or before the end of the month.
 

drum118

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4521 is in service after 18 day on 510 (510A)
 

Maltesefalcon

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4524 would bring them to what...4 deliveries in January? They need to average about 7 per month to reach the quota by year end. Hopefully they can ramp this up soon!
 

nfitz

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4524 would bring them to what...4 deliveries in January? They need to average about 7 per month to reach the quota by year end. Hopefully they can ramp this up soon!
All from Thunder Bay though. It's easy to see that they can deliver the 45 remaining cars from Thunder Bay this year after delivering 60 last year.

But we've only seen 1 car from Kingston at all. I'm becoming increasingly skeptical that are going be building 33 cars there in 2019.
 

thettctransitfanatic

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All from Thunder Bay though. It's easy to see that they can deliver the 45 remaining cars from Thunder Bay this year after delivering 60 last year.

But we've only seen 1 car from Kingston at all. I'm becoming increasingly skeptical that are going be building 33 cars there in 2019.

TB I assume will build a majority of the cars this year. Kingston is already showing they aren't interested
 

nfitz

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TB I assume will build a majority of the cars this year. Kingston is already showing they aren't interested
The plan was 34 cars in Kingston. Now that might change, but it's not like they just race each other and see what happens. This work would be scheduled months if not years in advance.
 

drum118

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The plan was 34 cars in Kingston. Now that might change, but it's not like they just race each other and see what happens. This work would be scheduled months if not years in advance.
Given the fact that 2 cars from Kingston were to show up in Oct, with 4572 being delivery in Dec, not saying much if they can do 2.5 cars a month for this year. Wouldn't be surprise to see TB built 60 cars and Kingston doing 24 at a rate of 2 per month. Anyway, 2019 target will be miss like all years schedule to date.

Kingston has Edmonton and Metrolinx orders to worry about, as they both have higher penalty clauses than TTC, with TTC already been used up. Maybe that larger law suite going to the Commission next week has to do with BBD?
 

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