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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

nfitz

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That's easy to answer. Bus service on 1 or more routes with tracks between ~2020 through 2024 (if they order immediately from someone else; otherwise 2024 gets later).
More likely 2027 if they keep the very optimistic schedule! The schedule in that June 2018 report was based on a Q3 2018 start on tendering for 100 more vehicles. Then an RFP in Q3 2020, award in Q4 2020, prototype delivered in Q2 2020, and final delivery didn't start until Q2 2024 - continuing for 2 years of deliveries. Which seems highly optimistic!

For comparison, the current project started back in April 2006, An RFP in 2007, with the award to Bombardier in 2009, first prototype in September 2012, deliveries starting in May 2014, and with the 100th car arriving in September 2018.

If the new streetcars follow similarly, then car 100 wouldn't arrive until 2031!

Meanwhile TTC estimates they'll need over 64 streetcars by 2023, and over 304 cars in 2027.

Which means if they go for just 100 more in a new tender, instead of first getting the 60 from Bombardier asap, and then 100 more ... then they'll be running buses every year in the future!
 
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drum118

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More likely 2027 if they keep the very optimistic schedule! The schedule in that June 2018 report was based on a Q3 2018 start on tendering for 100 more vehicles. Then an RFP in Q3 2020, award in Q4 2020, prototype delivered in Q2 2020, and final delivery didn't start until Q2 2024 - continuing for 2 years of deliveries. Which seems highly optimistic!

For comparison, the current project started back in April 2006, An RFP in 2007, with the award to Bombardier in 2009, first prototype in September 2012, deliveries starting in May 2014, and with the 100th car arriving in September 2018.

If the new streetcars follow similarly, then car 100 wouldn't arrive until 2031!

Meanwhile TTC estimates they'll need over 64 streetcars by 2023, and over 304 cars in 2027.

Which means if they go for just 100 more in a new tender, instead of first getting the 60 from Bombardier asap, and then 100 more ... then they'll be running buses every year in the future!
I don't see the same thing happening on an order not going to BBD as note. Based on what I know, we will see a prototype car 18 - 24 month once a contract is awarded and close to 18 months by a couple supplier.

One thing that has been shown with the current order, it should have been split as 2 contract and this has been stated by a number of professorial in field of streetcar buying.

The thing hold TTC from going to market sooner than later is the city and TTC budget. If TTC could get funding kicking in 2020, TTC could go to market in 2019 Q2-Q3 and awarding a contract Q1 in 2020 or sooner. This would see the first prototype showing up early 2022 and production starting by Q2-Q3. TTC could have the extra 60 cars by 2024 or early 25, with the balance by 2027 or sooner, based on TTC timetable.
 

smallspy

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Based on what I know, we will see a prototype car 18 - 24 month once a contract is awarded and close to 18 months by a couple supplier.

You may want to check on what you know then, Drum. There are very, very few parallels to this order. The one that comes closest to mind is the Helsinki order that resulted in them getting the now Skoda (formerly Transtech) Artic trams. That took them over 30 months from the time of signing of the contract to the delivery of the first of two test vehicles. And then another 24+ months to deliver the first production vehicle. And by the way, those first two test vehicles were never accepted by the Helsinki transit agency and were returned to Transtech.

So yeah, 18 months is not feasible for a bespoke vehicle. And 24 months isn't very likely, either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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thettctransitfanatic

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10 Flexities on 501 so far for Sunday service, 11 is likely how many we will get out, as only 11 made it out last weekend.
 
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drum118

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After a week in the same spot in the service bay, 4504 has not only moved to 2 different location, it out testing as an in service 501 (501A) heading eastbound on Queen at Bay St. Looks like its almost ready for service. No idea what was keeping the car in the same location this long. Another car that taken more than 25 days to get into service.

4506 was out testing yesterday and currently in the service bay. By the looks of things, it almost ready for service.

4507 has yet to show up on the GPS.

4508 should be here any day now. Opps!! It was off loaded this morning.

Now where is 4570 that was due over a week ago??
 
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robmausser

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What does everyone think the public reaction will be once all these cars are delivered?

Our reaction when they are all delivered in 2020 and Bombardier misses their deadline? Meanwhile we will still be waiting on the weld fixes for 67 cars? "Give us some fucking free cars you useless fucks" and "ban Bombardier from ever making vehicles for Toronto" comes to mind.
 

crs1026

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501 riders would happily ride on a turnip cart..... if it arrived on time, wasn’t bunched up with four others, wasn’t already packed to the rafters, and didn’t short turn before their destination. Getting the whole order delivered will strip away one more excuse and one more source of blame.
Maybe then, someone will ask why service can’t run more reliably, and there will be fewer places to hide.

- Paul
 

rbt

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... "ban Bombardier from ever making vehicles for Toronto" comes to mind.

Which would be a shame considering Toronto Rockets are some of the most reliable metro cars in the world.

I'll be disappointed if we ban Bombardier from a Line 2 fleet renewal bid as it would be pretty clear evidence of wanting revenge rather than wanting reliable vehicles at a decent price.
 

drum118

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So, was 4504 in service on 501 or just testing ? Back at Leslie now !
4504 was out testing today as an in service car and usually the last step before going into service. It will be in service come Tuesday, as it out in the yard now.

4506 is about to leave the yard again, since it already has been out once today.

Based on standard tender and contract policies, BBD has blown themselves out of the water and should be ban from the next 2 bid process. They only have themselves to be blame for not being allow to bid on the next order for Line 1, since the TR's will be move that line and a new 7 car train for Line 1.

There is a big different between wanting revenge and don't complying with the contract and spec's. Again, what should happen and what could happen, depends on Ford since he has Ontario open for business. QP has call the shots where TTC is to buy their equipment and giving away good money.
 

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