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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

drum118

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So what happens if the flexities begin to crap out en masse?
They are using Queen as a test route to get to the Queensway or Bathurst these days.

When doing testing on the Queensway, it from Shaw to the west, with cars using King eastbound to Shaw.

They have been using it to test the announcement system as an in service car, since they can't do it on the 506 route these days.

If they start to crap out in masse, we are in very very serious trouble and the call will go out to replace them with a new fleet of buses.
 

crs1026

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So what happens if the flexities begin to crap out en masse?

With 80ish cars on hand, if there were a single common problem, it would be obvious by now from the number of cars sidelined. Or by TTC demanding that production cease until the problem is solved.

There's no evidence of that, beyond the doors being a bit troublesome, and the MTBF still needing improvement.

TTC staff have been positive about the cars themselves in their reporting - the problem is simply not having enough of them. And, they are still under warranty at this point.

Over the long haul, if something turns out to be prone to failure or premature wear, TTC will have to eat that somehow. Or, as @Drum points out, we will be back to buses. Not that there has never been a model of bus that turned out to be a lemon, either.

- Paul
 

AHK

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To add to CRS1026's response, the Bombardier Flexity is a well established product - not a new one. The existing design was adapted to the TTC's unique rail gauge - but other than that, based on an existing, field proven, product. As of 2015 - three years ago - more than 3,500 Flexity vehicles were in operation around the world - Europe, Asia, Australia, North America, in over 100 cities across over 20 countries. With a production history and a legacy of operational experience like that, any hidden or latent defect that would impact a sizeable portion of the fleet (...crap out en masse?) - probably would have been found and resolved by now.

This is not to deny that Bombardier had issues in implementing its new production facilities to handle the TTC order, and to ramp up the schedule to meet contract commitments - but that is a separate issue to the integrity of the underlying product design.
 

drum118

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Why are you asking this hypothetical question? Have you seen evidence that Flexities - which are in use in many cities - have inherent problems?
He needs to visit Europe to not only see longer cars up to 56 meters, but coming every 5 minutes or less on schedule.

Each manufacture have some sort of issues with their equipment and it is dealt with as time goes on either in the production stage or years after being in service.

Each system from time to time change manufactures for one reason or another to the point they can have as many as 3 different type of equipment in the fleet at the same time.

I am not a fan of BBD cars, but the ones we have are close to the ones in many of Europe systems and a few of those have just order more of them this year.

The problem we have, we don't and will not have enough cars on hand if some sort of issues arise until we have over 300 cars in the fleet and meet 2025 deadline.
 

drum118

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nfitz

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I've been seeing a lot of the new Flexity's on Queen lately running as 501.
I've not seen very many at all - the odd mid-day car perhaps. There's none out this morning.

Where did you see this?

It's probably 504, 509, 510, 512, and 514 cars, that all have to run down Queen East, and even Queen West to Bathurst to get to their routes, from the barn on Leslie south of Queen. Many are signed as 501s - and there's a never-ending stream of them at 6 AM or so, as service begins.
 

nfitz

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Still leaves 4486 to be ship by this weekend to make Q2 schedule
The Q2 target was to put 16 cars in service. At the end of Q1 there were 67 cars in service (the 67th car being 4468 which entered service on March 21).

So to meet the Q2 target, they need 83 cars in service. If 4466 has been returned, neither 4484, 4485, nor 4486 need to have shipped to still make Q2 (though it would make the 15-car Q3 target tougher).

4481 getting ready to leave the yard. It was out earlier as a 501 in service car on Queen
If 4480 and 4481 are indeed in service, then they now have 80 cars in service. To meet the Q2 goal of 16, they only have to get 4466, 4482, and 4484 in service with 11 days to go - which isn't impossible, given they all arrived last week.

Close as it matters, they've made their Q2 goal. They might even exceed it, catching up on Q1 where only 10 of 12 cars entered service.

And with only 15 to enter service in Q3 (two of which have already been received), the Q3 goal seems doable as well (presumably the summer shut down is in there somewhere).

Whether they achieve a 2019 goal of 83 cars (about 21 cars per quarter) probably depends on whether they can do 21 cars in Q4. Which hardly seem onerous, given they are on track for 16 in Q2, without the Kingston assembly line coming into play.

This should play well for the July report to the board, on whether or not to recommend the additional 60 cars.

Either way, it's fantastic work by Bombardier. Only 27 cars entered service in 2017, and 17 in 2016. We've already had 22 cars enter service in 2018, with 5 more already here or apparently en route (4483 and 4485)!
 
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drum118

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The Q2 target was to put 16 cars in service. At the end of Q1 there were 67 cars in service (the 67th car being 4468 which entered service on March 21).

So to meet the Q2 target, they need 83 cars in service. If 4466 has been returned, neither 4484, 4485, nor 4486 need to have shipped to still make Q2 (though it would make the 15-car Q3 target tougher).

If 4480 and 4481 are indeed in service, then they now have 80 cars in service. To meet the Q2 goal of 16, they only have to get 4466, 4482, and 4484 in service with 11 days to go - which isn't impossible, given they all arrived last week.

Close as it matters, they've made their Q2 goal. They might even exceed it, catching up on Q1 where only 10 of 12 cars entered service.

And with only 15 to enter service in Q3 (two of which have already been received), the Q3 goal seems doable as well (presumably the summer shut down is in there somewhere).

Whether they achieve a 2019 goal of 83 cars (about 21 cars per quarter) probably depends on whether they can do 21 cars in Q4. Which hardly seem onerous, given they are on track for 16 in Q2, without the Kingston assembly line coming into play.

This should play well for the July report to the board, on whether or not to recommend the additional 60 cars.

Either way, it's fantastic work by Bombardier. Only 27 cars entered service in 2017, and 17 in 2016. We've already had 22 cars enter service in 2018, with 5 more already here or apparently en route (4483 and 4485)!
27 cars are due by June 29 for this year schedule.

4459 was the last car to be off loaded onto TTC property for 2017. 4459 + 27 = 4486 by June 29 on TTC property.

4466 + 4480-4482 not in service at this time. 4480 & 81 should see service by June 22, but not 4482. 4466 is a toss up from what I have seen. 4482 by June 29

17 cars due for Q3, which is about a car a week.

Based on time frame from car arriving to in service this year compare to the past, cars aren't 100% complete upon arrival. The extra time is to finish the work not done in TB.

4482 was out for testing today and just arrived back at the Barns. The other 3 are in the service bay with 4466 & 4481 GPS having them some where TTC doesn't exist or run to at all.

We know 4483 in transit and 4485 maybe as well. This leaves 4486 to be ship by this weekend by my accounting to be here next Friday at Hillcrest.

I expect to see next to no cars for 2 weeks this summer, to allow for a plant shut down that normally take place.
 

nfitz

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27 cars are due by June 29 for this year schedule.
That's the Q1+Q2 target for vehicles in service (presumably on June 30).

Bombardier can achieve the Q2 target, without achieving the Q1 or Q1+Q2 target.

As they've never achieved a quarterly target before, we should be accelerating - not raising the bar (yet).

5459 was the last car to be off loaded onto TTC property for 2017. 4459 + 27 = 4486 by June 29 on TTC propert.
The CEO report says "in service", not "on property".

We know 4483 in transit and 4485 maybe as well.
I've seen photos of 4485. I don't know 4483 is in transit, though others might.

Heck, I'm not 100% convinced 4466 is even in Toronto. :)


This leaves 4486 to be ship by this weekend by my accounting to be here next Friday at Hillcrest.
It wouldn't be in service however in time to meet the 16 in-service during Q2 target that's mentioned in the TTC CEO's report.
 

khris

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I've not seen very many at all - the odd mid-day car perhaps. There's none out this morning.

Where did you see this?

It's probably 504, 509, 510, 512, and 514 cars, that all have to run down Queen East, and even Queen West to Bathurst to get to their routes, from the barn on Leslie south of Queen. Many are signed as 501s - and there's a never-ending stream of them at 6 AM or so, as service begins.
A lot was exaggerating. They did have 501 on the display though.
 

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