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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

rbt

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I'm actually surprised that they have shipped as reliably in order as they have. It would be very likely that car X would have some last minute glitch or final quality check failure that would hold up its release, with car x+1 coming off the line and ready to ship sooner. Back when the line was not moving at current rates, that was less likely.... but I would expect more out-of-order deliveries than we've seen.

That's an interesting thought. I just assumed they used a different tracking ID internally and slapped the TTC ID number on it as one of the final steps.
 

crs1026

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That's an interesting thought. I just assumed they used a different tracking ID internally and slapped the TTC ID number on it as one of the final steps.

I don’t know what Bombardier does, but it’s more common for the internal shop or frame numbering to be mapped to the end user numbering sequence fairly early, at least on paper. That way, the installation of any uniquely numbered components (traction motors, electronics boards, or whatever) can be tracked and kept straight. Also depends on where the paint shop sits in the production sequence.

Kinda like when the satellite radio marketers started sending me promotional material while my new car was still on a transporter a thousand miles away from the dealer.

- Paul
 

bbdfollower

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I don’t know what Bombardier does, but it’s more common for the internal shop or frame numbering to be mapped to the end user numbering sequence fairly early, at least on paper. That way, the installation of any uniquely numbered components (traction motors, electronics boards, or whatever) can be tracked and kept straight. Also depends on where the paint shop sits in the production sequence.

Kinda like when the satellite radio marketers started sending me promotional material while my new car was still on a transporter a thousand miles away from the dealer.

- Paul


On the commercial aircraft side maps very early each 'air frame' to each customer and there they have had many out of order deliveries. abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html

That's an entirely different ball game as the customers have distinct aircraft, but I'm sure BBD is likely to have the car number mapped out at the first step of assembly at TB.
 

jordanmkasla2009

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I don’t know what Bombardier does, but it’s more common for the internal shop or frame numbering to be mapped to the end user numbering sequence fairly early, at least on paper. That way, the installation of any uniquely numbered components (traction motors, electronics boards, or whatever) can be tracked and kept straight. Also depends on where the paint shop sits in the production sequence.

Kinda like when the satellite radio marketers started sending me promotional material while my new car was still on a transporter a thousand miles away from the dealer.

- Paul
Thunder Bay has two production lines and running at a time right now. They get inspected, QC tested and shipped in order of completion rather than fleet number ordering. During the production run they'll always have about 4-5 assembled vehicles in the bays for inspection, QC testing and final touches and they leave a couple bays empty in case something happens to some during shipping (like 4466). It's also not unsual for one line to work slightly faster than another in a production facility.
 

Allandale25

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Since 4484 is at the loading dock and to be off loaded Monday or Tuesday, where 4483?? Maybe 4483 is in CP yard waiting for 4484 to be off loaded first. Then, it could been off loaded already.

As it stands, 4483, 4485 and 4486 have to be ship by this coming Friday to meet Q2 schedule. 4485 could be loaded for shipment now based on the photo above.

4482 is still not tracking after been here 5 days.

4481 has been out since 12 am today and currently going southbound on Bathurst St to 509 route.

4480 is currently in the service bay since Friday night.

4466 GPS has the car in Lake Ontario since Friday night and still there.

I'm told 4485 is at the loading ramp at the plant in Thunder Bay this past Saturday and might have been at the gate as of Sunday for pick up by CP.
 

drum118

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4482 is now tracking

Still leaves 4486 to be ship by this weekend to make Q2 schedule

4481 getting ready to leave the yard. It was out earlier as a 501 in service car on Queen
 

drum118

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So what happens if the flexities begin to crap out en masse?
They are using Queen as a test route to get to the Queensway or Bathurst these days.

When doing testing on the Queensway, it from Shaw to the west, with cars using King eastbound to Shaw.

They have been using it to test the announcement system as an in service car, since they can't do it on the 506 route these days.

If they start to crap out in masse, we are in very very serious trouble and the call will go out to replace them with a new fleet of buses.
 

crs1026

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So what happens if the flexities begin to crap out en masse?

With 80ish cars on hand, if there were a single common problem, it would be obvious by now from the number of cars sidelined. Or by TTC demanding that production cease until the problem is solved.

There's no evidence of that, beyond the doors being a bit troublesome, and the MTBF still needing improvement.

TTC staff have been positive about the cars themselves in their reporting - the problem is simply not having enough of them. And, they are still under warranty at this point.

Over the long haul, if something turns out to be prone to failure or premature wear, TTC will have to eat that somehow. Or, as @Drum points out, we will be back to buses. Not that there has never been a model of bus that turned out to be a lemon, either.

- Paul
 

AHK

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To add to CRS1026's response, the Bombardier Flexity is a well established product - not a new one. The existing design was adapted to the TTC's unique rail gauge - but other than that, based on an existing, field proven, product. As of 2015 - three years ago - more than 3,500 Flexity vehicles were in operation around the world - Europe, Asia, Australia, North America, in over 100 cities across over 20 countries. With a production history and a legacy of operational experience like that, any hidden or latent defect that would impact a sizeable portion of the fleet (...crap out en masse?) - probably would have been found and resolved by now.

This is not to deny that Bombardier had issues in implementing its new production facilities to handle the TTC order, and to ramp up the schedule to meet contract commitments - but that is a separate issue to the integrity of the underlying product design.
 

drum118

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Why are you asking this hypothetical question? Have you seen evidence that Flexities - which are in use in many cities - have inherent problems?
He needs to visit Europe to not only see longer cars up to 56 meters, but coming every 5 minutes or less on schedule.

Each manufacture have some sort of issues with their equipment and it is dealt with as time goes on either in the production stage or years after being in service.

Each system from time to time change manufactures for one reason or another to the point they can have as many as 3 different type of equipment in the fleet at the same time.

I am not a fan of BBD cars, but the ones we have are close to the ones in many of Europe systems and a few of those have just order more of them this year.

The problem we have, we don't and will not have enough cars on hand if some sort of issues arise until we have over 300 cars in the fleet and meet 2025 deadline.
 

drum118

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