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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

cplchanb

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Let's assume, given how long it took 4400/4402 to return that there is a lot more going on than ramp replacement, which surely could have been done at the Barns anyway.

Maybe the process will be that La P will do disassembly then ship 4401 in "kit form", possibly along with La P manufactured parts, to be reassembled on TB's line. This does not tie up either of TB's lines or other floor space to do the disassembly but may take advantage of floor space available (for whatever reason in La P).

Alternatively, the attractive factor may be the availability of skilled workers in La P pending the ramp up to the new Azur order (rather than the floor space)? [EDIT: there could be pressure on BBD to use La P for Quebec City trams if BBD gets that work, so it works on a familiarisation basis also]

If that's the case I wonder if it's more economical just to renumber one of the new cars as 4401 and eventually have the usable original components recycled into the production line as another car
 

dowlingm

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If that's the case I wonder if it's more economical just to renumber one of the new cars as 4401 and eventually have the usable original components recycled into the production line as another car
I suspect TTC would have a problem with cars coming other than “as new” for the purposes of tracking mileage. BBD could have used pre prod cars as demonstrators but the odd width of TTC cars would make them only suitable for SEPTA, and they are possibly too tall for them
 

cplchanb

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I suspect TTC would have a problem with cars coming other than “as new” for the purposes of tracking mileage. BBD could have used pre prod cars as demonstrators but the odd width of TTC cars would make them only suitable for SEPTA, and they are possibly too tall for them

I guess I should rephrase: I was referring to new cars coming off the line. Have the next new car be 4401 and filter off the salvagable used parts to piece together a 45xx
 

cplchanb

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SaugeenJunction

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This is very unscientific and I am sure that there are other designs, and that a TTC unit may be different, but I've compiled some notable examples from each of the 10 supplier's models for your viewing pleasure. And yes, I wonder who made the shortlist, and where the new barn to accommodate the units will be located.

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innsertnamehere

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The report essentially says "sure we can pick someone other than Bombardier but their costs are going to be way higher and take years longer".
 

bbdfollower

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the timeline in that document has 'contract award' in Q4 2020, and first delivery out in Q2 2024.

But, once all of the 204 initial-order cars are delivered, presumably sometime in Q4 2019 or Q1 2020, couldn't we immediately start having cars from the option-order delivered? 2019 production schedule is 83 cars to be delivered - if they can achieve that rate, or even 60-70% we could conceivably have another 100 cars here by Q3 2021?
 

Voltz

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the timeline in that document has 'contract award' in Q4 2020, and first delivery out in Q2 2024.

But, once all of the 204 initial-order cars are delivered, presumably sometime in Q4 2019 or Q1 2020, couldn't we immediately start having cars from the option-order delivered? 2019 production schedule is 83 cars to be delivered - if they can achieve that rate, or even 60-70% we could conceivably have another 100 cars here by Q3 2021?

They could have done that if they exercised the option in the Bombardier order, but there was too much political posturing against them to do that,
 

bbdfollower

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They could have done that if they exercised the option in the Bombardier order, but there was too much political posturing against them to do that,

So the option is expired? If the option is expired, why do they mention the strike price of cars in this report: that should be completely irrelevant to what we can expect to pay on the open market right now.
 

rbt

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The report essentially says "sure we can pick someone other than Bombardier but their costs are going to be way higher and take years longer".

Yep, but I'm seeing a requirements for about 160 additional vehicles total.

1) Staff want to take the Bombardier option for 60 with expectations that they can be fully delivered by 2021.

2) Staff want to buy an 100 additional units (the long way) with delivery from 2024 through ~2036.

It would be nice if both happened. I don't expect to see any provincial funding for it though.
 

cplchanb

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This is very unscientific and I am sure that there are other designs, and that a TTC unit may be different, but I've compiled some notable examples from each of the 10 supplier's models for your viewing pleasure. And yes, I wonder who made the shortlist, and where the new barn to accommodate the units will be located.

wow CRRC is so big they could afford to send 3 different divisions to bid for the same project....
 

Voltz

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So the option is expired? If the option is expired, why do they mention the strike price of cars in this report: that should be completely irrelevant to what we can expect to pay on the open market right now.

It was set to expire after the delivery of 60 cars, if they can still get it I don't know, maybe as part of compensation for the late delivery's.
 

crs1026

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Nothing prevents Bombardier from bidding as if the option were still in place, to secure the order.

The report is pretty positive regarding Bombardier having recovered from its failure. No adverse comments regarding MTBF, either. TTC staff sound content with the product.

In fact, the comments about Bombardier continuing to improve quality makes one wonder about how close the early product was to the line.

The comments about latent demand and the need for a larger fleet are music to my ears, regardless of who gets the order.

- Paul
 

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