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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

UD2

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  • I’ve never understood why they don’t just install interac tap devices. We already have the tap enabled credit and debit cards in our pockets.

It will take 5 to 15 seconds per tap for transaction to go through, slowing down boarding and station entry.

No way for children and people with low credit scores to use the integrated payment method.

People at their credit limit can’t travel home.

Need to pay credit card companies to collect information on customer travel pattern.

Problems go on.
 

rbt

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It will take 5 to 15 seconds per tap for transaction to go through, slowing down boarding and station entry.

Absolutely unnecessary; it's not a $50 purchase (nor does it take 5 seconds in most retail outlets). TTC can take a bit of risk that of a small %age of trips might be made for free (they already do; it's fare fraud).

Accept by default doing local checks on expiry date and the like (transaction time below 0.1s) and process in a central location after the fact (a split second later during typical operation).

If the card fails, publish that to all machines immediately; the rider will not be able to transfer (most trips require a transfer or are bidirectional) and that card is now blocked. If we require an exit tap, the user will not be able to leave the station with that card either (install fare payment device inside fare-paid area at all stations). 1GB storage per device ($5) can block hundreds of millions of cards.


What about discounts for frequent users?

If card is valid, put a $20 hold on the card (fallback to cash fare if $20 fails). At the end of the week (or when they hit $20 in riding) charge the card for full balance owing; pay bank for that single transaction. First trip is cash fare, all other trips might be token fare.

Allow user to close their account manually (charge card + release hold) via a fare payment machine. Perhaps they can change their permanent preference for that card number there too.



What about kids? Parents don't want to deposit money into a kids bank-account so they can ride transit.

Register a card in advance (perhaps are a fare machine) as identification only. Point that identification card number at a separate payment account such as a parents credit card. Child can now use whatever NFC enabled card they have, including their phone or a TTC issued card, as identification and the payment is charged elsewhere. ID only NFC is really cheap to implement; at a few pennies per card (many agencies use disposable ones for transfers).


Yes, accept by default will cause TTC to eat a few fares this way. It's going to be pretty rare; they've certainly eaten their share of Presto fares when all machines were unavailable.


Need to pay credit card companies to collect information on customer travel pattern.

Also completely unnecessary. You think Walmart doesn't know which checkout-lane you made a purchase at because you tapped Visa at the till?

Yes, those hand-held devices that small retail uses (because they don't want to roll their own transaction processing backend) tend not to give much feedback but TTC has millions of transactions per day; they can (and did: see Presto) roll their own transaction processing backend which collects information they want.

Some customers might rotate cards to reduce TTC from tracking them (losing frequent rider points too). Of course, we have people on this forum with 2 or 3 Presto cards. Ultimately, TTC wants to know about about broader network use patterns (are those 500 9am walk-ins at Kennedy station exiting at Dundas station or Eglinton Station?) than whether an individual named Fred consistently begins their weekday commute at 8:10am at St. Clair West.


The real issue is we keep going back to Accenture for our software tech solutions without much of a plan in mind beyond "this seems nifty".
 
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officedweller

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TTC will probably activate credit card tap in a couple years after the system settles down.

TransLink in Vancouver just activated it last week - including on buses.

Our card readers accept contactless Visa and Mastercard credit cards and Apple Pay, Google Pay, and Samsung Pay. For customers without Compass Cards, this new feature means no more ticket line-ups, digging for exact change, or worrying about pre-calculating zones. You can tap a contactless Visa or Mastercard credit card or mobile-payment method on card readers to pay your adult, cash fare. Note: card readers will not accept debit cards.
https://www.translink.ca/Fares-and-Passes/Tap-to-Pay.aspx

Visa101-edit-590x401.jpg

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/...man-promoting-translinks-new-tap-pay-feature/

Which was preceded by the "Tap your Card, Not your Wallet" campaign -
because credit cards are charged at full adult cash fare, not monthly or daily discounted fares, nor seniors' or student rates.
The Compass card also provides a discounted rate.
Tapping a wallet may charge your credit card instead of your Compass card,
and a credit card does not encode information showing you are entitled to a seniors or student rate.

translink-credit-card-tap-1.jpg

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-compass-card-tap-wallet-2018
 
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drum118

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4477 is now tracking

4478 out on Kingston Rd

4479 in the service bay
 

lenaitch

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So if the new streetcar(s) get stuck - I assume they would be stuck in a nice secure yard and not some one off siding in some small northern ontario town ? (heck.... even Sudbury's Yard is not all the secure..)

Not a railroader but I would assume trains will be tied up at crew change points. I'm not sure any rail yard is what I would call 'secure' (at least by my definition). There will be all sorts of stranded lading, such as auto racks, all across the system.
 

smallspy

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CP and their unions have come to tentative agreements and thus the strikes have ended for the time being. I don't think that we'll have to worry about stranded streetcars for the foreseeable future.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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drum118

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4477 Out on King St

4478 in the yard and ready for service Friday

4479 out on the Queensway
 

drum118

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4478 is about to depart the Barns as a 504 (BRBS) and something I haven't seen before.

Looked at 4478 before leaving this morning and it was backing up to the service bay it was last in the night before. It was in another bay just before moving to the outbound track.

Strange that 4401 got ship to La Pocatiere and guess they have room and manpower to rebuilt it.

If 4480 arrived today, should be at Hillcrest Monday.

Still leaves 7 more cars to be ship from Thunder Bay by June 22 including most likely 4481 ready for pickup.

4478 is at the Lake Shore 7 days after arriving in service
 
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drum118

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^ Where is "at the Lake Shore"?
It was going northbound on Leslie at the Lake Shore as I was typing the posting. I did state it was about to depart the Barns at the top.

It is now at Dundas West Loop as a straight 504
 
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dowlingm

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I guess 4401 could be a “strip it down and see how it fits together (sort of)” so that in reconstructing it, the La P workers have a sense of how to build new ones
 

drum118

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I guess 4401 could be a “strip it down and see how it fits together (sort of)” so that in reconstructing it, the La P workers have a sense of how to build new ones
I stand to be corrected, but the 2 accessibility ramp section are to be replace with new ones to match the current design and the whole car brought up to current standards as well.

I guess La P is going to get first hand training on building new cars since TB could be history within the next few years as well not seeing anymore orders for new cars.
 

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