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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

jordanmkasla2009

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4469 in service?
https://twitter.com/transsee/status/978384604544499713
(Edit: a CPTDB poster points out that 4468 also signed into 501 during testing)

Friends of ours that live beside the 512 claim the Flexities are significantly slower than the CLRVs, especially the doors. Is that view widely held?
There is a sort of illusionary effect when you perceive a large object moving that makes it seem like it's slower.
 

duper

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I saw 4469 in testing on Queen Street today at around 5:40 PM. It turned into the Roncesvalles garage.
 

lead82

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The new trams are slower. It's not an illusion. All the new vehicles, buses, subway trains and new trams have the new style of doors which are much slower to close. It's a safety feature likely.

Trams are great at moving more people more comfortably but for some reason the TTC treats trams not as a true mode of transport but of some leisurely service for tourists. People need to get from A to B as fast as possible. The city and the TTC should have looked at removing some close stops on the tram routes to help compensate. There is no need to stop every 100m and spend 1-2 minutes at each stop. It's much better to have fewer stops and have more people at each stop. St. Clair is a perfect example of too many stops, especially between Dufferin and Spadina. There are stops basically every 100-150m. Its beyond ridiculous. Why is there a Vaughan Rd. stop when Bathurst is right there? Why is there Tweedsmuir stop needed when St. Clair W. station is 50m away and Spadina is another 100m in other direction.

Another annoying thing is that Toronto tram drivers always drive like they are strolling. Trams often go very slow when there is no traffic (512, 504/514, 509/510). They stop at all switches/crossings and them go through them ultra slow. These switches were rebuilt recently, why the slow order on them? I'm not saying to blast through at 50km/hr, but they should be easily able to go through at 20-30km/hr.
 

robmausser

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The city and the TTC should have looked at removing some close stops on the tram routes to help compensate. .

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...n_Safety_andvCustomer_Journey__Times_Tran.pdf

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/Improving-safety_str/index.jsp

unfortunately a LOT of stops that were planned to be removed, were vetoed by Councillors of that area.

This is a typical problem with transit, everyone wants to be served by a station in their area, until there are so many stations the ride is slow to the point of unusable.
 

jordanmkasla2009

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http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...n_Safety_andvCustomer_Journey__Times_Tran.pdf

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/Improving-safety_str/index.jsp

unfortunately a LOT of stops that were planned to be removed, were vetoed by Councillors of that area.

This is a typical problem with transit, everyone wants to be served by a station in their area, until there are so many stations the ride is slow to the point of unusable.

The biggest thing holding the TTC back from being better than it is now is City Council
 

TransOp

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The new trams are slower. It's not an illusion. All the new vehicles, buses, subway trains and new trams have the new style of doors which are much slower to close. It's a safety feature likely.

Trams are great at moving more people more comfortably but for some reason the TTC treats trams not as a true mode of transport but of some leisurely service for tourists. People need to get from A to B as fast as possible. The city and the TTC should have looked at removing some close stops on the tram routes to help compensate. There is no need to stop every 100m and spend 1-2 minutes at each stop. It's much better to have fewer stops and have more people at each stop. St. Clair is a perfect example of too many stops, especially between Dufferin and Spadina. There are stops basically every 100-150m. Its beyond ridiculous. Why is there a Vaughan Rd. stop when Bathurst is right there? Why is there Tweedsmuir stop needed when St. Clair W. station is 50m away and Spadina is another 100m in other direction.

Another annoying thing is that Toronto tram drivers always drive like they are strolling. Trams often go very slow when there is no traffic (512, 504/514, 509/510). They stop at all switches/crossings and them go through them ultra slow. These switches were rebuilt recently, why the slow order on them? I'm not saying to blast through at 50km/hr, but they should be easily able to go through at 20-30km/hr.

Streetcar operator here. The reason why we drive slow when there is no traffic is because the schedules are padded to ensure that when there is traffic or high customer volume, we can still make it to the ends on time. In the absence of traffic or low ridership, we tend to get ahead of schedule which causes bunching at the ends leaving big gaps in between service. We go slow to maintain schedule and ensure that there are consistent headways between vehicles. Without these padded schedules there would be more short-turns causing more inconveniences to customers. Regarding the speed through switches, it is procedure to stop at every facing switch to ensure that it is set for the intended direction and to proceed through every facing and trailing switch no faster than 10 km/h until the rear trucks have cleared the last switch. This is to lessen the possibility of switch incidents such as going the wrong way or derailing the streetcar over a switch that is not properly set. We also must not exceed 25 km/h through signalized intersections so that we can stop more easily should another vehicle or pedestrian make an erratic move.
 

yrt+viva=1system

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Streetcar operator here. The reason why we drive slow when there is no traffic is because the schedules are padded to ensure that when there is traffic or high customer volume, we can still make it to the ends on time. In the absence of traffic or low ridership, we tend to get ahead of schedule which causes bunching at the ends leaving big gaps in between service. We go slow to maintain schedule and ensure that there are consistent headways between vehicles. Without these padded schedules there would be more short-turns causing more inconveniences to customers. Regarding the speed through switches, it is procedure to stop at every facing switch to ensure that it is set for the intended direction and to proceed through every facing and trailing switch no faster than 10 km/h until the rear trucks have cleared the last switch. This is to lessen the possibility of switch incidents such as going the wrong way or derailing the streetcar over a switch that is not properly set. We also must not exceed 25 km/h through signalized intersections so that we can stop more easily should another vehicle or pedestrian make an erratic move.

Reading this immediately drew parallels to an article about MTA deliberately slowing down subway trains. All of these excuses by the TTC are just their own doing and lack of a spine to deal with them up front.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/03/13/the-trains-are-slower-because-they-slowed-the-trains-down/
 

APTA-2048

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Regarding the speed through switches, it is procedure to stop at every facing switch to ensure that it is set for the intended direction and to proceed through every facing and trailing switch no faster than 10 km/h until the rear trucks have cleared the last switch. This is to lessen the possibility of switch incidents such as going the wrong way or derailing the streetcar over a switch that is not properly set. We also must not exceed 25 km/h through signalized intersections so that we can stop more easily should another vehicle or pedestrian make an erratic move.
Not a knock against you, but I always thought these were such stupid solutions that hinder exemplary streetcar operation.
 

jordanmkasla2009

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Reading this immediately drew parallels to an article about MTA deliberately slowing down subway trains. All of these excuses by the TTC are just their own doing and lack of a spine to deal with them up front.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/03/13/the-trains-are-slower-because-they-slowed-the-trains-down/
I mean the schedules are still set and calibrated for the old streetcar fleet on most of the streetcar routes so adjusting the schedules is right now out of the question.
 

robmausser

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Streetcar operator here. The reason why we drive slow when there is no traffic is because the schedules are padded to ensure that when there is traffic or high customer volume, we can still make it to the ends on time. In the absence of traffic or low ridership, we tend to get ahead of schedule which causes bunching at the ends leaving big gaps in between service. We go slow to maintain schedule and ensure that there are consistent headways between vehicles.

While I understand this is necessary, I think that when there is bunching there should be a FAST order on the lead streetcar of the bunching.

Too many times i've seen bunching and the lead streetcar causing the bunching is moseying about, at a pokey slow speed.

The lead car should be ordered to go at the maximum allowable speed to also mitigate bunching.
 

Kitsune

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http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...n_Safety_andvCustomer_Journey__Times_Tran.pdf

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/Improving-safety_str/index.jsp

unfortunately a LOT of stops that were planned to be removed, were vetoed by Councillors of that area.

This is a typical problem with transit, everyone wants to be served by a station in their area, until there are so many stations the ride is slow to the point of unusable.


Well some of those are still going through (ie I know the Spruce hill stop on Queen is being moved to Balsalm due to the wheelchair cutout). Dunno about Maclean, although there is a driveway that is roughly in the same area where the wheelchair cutout would be. Just would like to know when that would happen.
 

drum118

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I don't remember seeing anywhere that 4467 entered service, and the GPS reports out by the airport at the moment.
Enter service March 18, 2018 on Route 504. I have posted that info.

A fair number of cars GPS has them where no tracks exist.

There are a number of stops to be relocated, but haven't been for some reasons to the new location a block away with sidewalk cuts in place last year.

TTC staff can do all the ordering for drivers to speed up, but there is a bunch who will give the finger to such order and continue to cause bunching.
 

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