News   Nov 26, 2021
 2.9K     4 
News   Nov 26, 2021
 577     0 
News   Nov 26, 2021
 3.7K     0 

TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
24,351
Reaction score
4,704
Location
Toronto
This doesn't have to do with the Flexity's and the s**tshow that is Bombardier. Munro says so right in his quoted Twitter posts.
It has a lot to do with the Flexity's.

The 30 (or is it now 20) remaining ALRvs may now be around longer, with TTC's stupid decision to second guess and rethink the the option on exercising the option and getting 60 more Bombardier Flexity vehicles.

What is off-topic, is complaining that on-topic discussion is off-topic. Just because a relative novice transit user such as yourself (who admitted ages ago, that they only ever use the 510) doesn't understand the relationship, doesn't mean it's not there.

And buses on 505 and buses on 506...but wasn't that supposed to be in February? Hard to believe so many of the CLRVs are dead in the water because of the cold. But it is damn cold.
Yes, February. I've seen nothing but streetcars on 506 all weekend. And now it's going to be warm for the next week, streetcars will be back. However TTC moved a lot of the already scheduled 504 peak runs using buses to 505, and those 505 cars to 504, to increase capacity in the King pilot area.

February is a mix of streetcar shortage, and the desire to get more equipment for 504.


Bombardier has not built a good product since the T1s.
I don't think that's true. In Toronto alone, the GO equipment seems fine. And the TR implementation went better than many similar projects.

Even TTC has been very positive about the Flexity quality - it's the quantity that was the issue. Though they are now rolling off the assembly line much faster than originally planned.

And no I really don't think they can build 6 cars a month right now. I think they could possibly build and ship one per week. Not 76 as scheduled, but certainly an improvement.
They shipped 16 in the last 3 calendar months. And the other 2 they'd hoped to ship are apparently all but done waiting for some parts to arrive. That's 64 a year, and almost 72 a year. 76 isn't that impossible.

I believe their target is 3 per week.
The target is about 3 a fortnight, not 3 a week!

3 per week? Thats 156 per year give or take. Pretty ambitious if they could pull that one off.
That might be for all Flexity's produced in Canada, including the Toronto, Waterloo, and Edmonton cars.

The TTC target is 76 per year. About 1.5 a week. They ramped up to over 1.2 a week last quarter.

If we do a comparison of the total cars shipped, they are currently short 11 out of the 70 that should have been on hand on Dec 31/2017. That’s a 15.7% shortfall.
And about 4 weeks production.

The tally was altered several times, but in the waning days of November/December the “schedule” was altered for months that had already passed by.
No it didn't. TTC didn't publish it in the CEO report until weeks after they received it. Probably about 6 weeks.

Let’s see what happens in 2018. If Bombardier can really get 17 units delivered in the first quarter, I will be convinced they have turned themselves around.
Better for for shipped. As 2 of the 16 they shipped in the last quarter, didn't get delivered until 2018. Or else you'll be double counting, as they are already at 2.

Though with Christmas, I would be happy if the 2nd quarter hits target.

Not that having all the cars by end of 2020 is the worst case scenario. It's a far site better than some of the scenarios floating around a couple of years ago!
 
Last edited:

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,606
Reaction score
4,959
Yes, the refurbishment program itself was intended to offset the delays to the Flexity deliveries even in 2015, but since that time it is evident the TTC is failing at refurbishing them.

The ALRV refurbishment program was solely intended to keep them around until 2024 or 2025 to help improve service above and beyond the 204 Flexities - and try and hold the TTC over until the next streetcar procurement. If there was going to be one.

In Flexity news, 4460 was delivered on Friday.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
17,179
Reaction score
13,262
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
I wonder if TTC could grab the San Jose-UTA UTDC cars which are essentially ALRV's except for the ends.

Probably available pretty cheap not sure what shape they are in, doubt they have heat systems suitable for Toronto winters though. but they have round wheels and roll. Requaging is minor
 

44 North

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
3,603
Reaction score
2,058
Location
Ward 28
I had a looked at the Queensway in Dec and all the rails are in place with concrete pour for them. Overhead support still missing for much of it as well the overhead. Never got a look at the loop at all.

The section from the loop to Park Lawn should be finish in Feb, subject to the weather, not the plan Dec date.

Didn't know it was planned to finish by Dec. I guess it's not as far behind as I thought. Still though would like to see these things completed in a shorter timeframe. 24h work windows being most optimal, at least for work that's less noisy.

It's way more difficult than simply "hopping in the seat and off you go". I woudn't recommend trying it, but if you were to do so you wouldn't get very far.

I honestly don't know how easy, and actually was under the impression once online there is no ignition key or security transponder. At least for the A/CLRVs, but again not sure. If the driver hopped out to operate a switch or grab a coffee, and there is no mechanism to prevent theft, do think it's surprising that all these years someone hasn't decided to zip off in one. After I posted I read an article about a boy in Melbourne that did so, but less nefarious in that he made all the stops.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
17,179
Reaction score
13,262
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Didn't know it was planned to finish by Dec. I guess it's not as far behind as I thought. Still though would like to see these things completed in a shorter timeframe. 24h work windows being most optimal, at least for work that's less noisy..
The section from Park Lawn to the Loop was to be done by Dec 2017 with the Queensway being Feb.

Construction crews have a pile of fool drivers wanting to go west on Lake Shore when there is a one way sign telling these fools to go east in the first place. That one way sign has been there for years. Almost a few head on's with the construction crew flagging these drivers to stop and turn around.

Its a night crew doing this work with the day crew doing the Queensway.

This was on Dec 15
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,606
Reaction score
4,959
Didn't know it was planned to finish by Dec. I guess it's not as far behind as I thought. Still though would like to see these things completed in a shorter timeframe. 24h work windows being most optimal, at least for work that's less noisy.

24 hour work windows won't help when a problem is found that is so severe that a portion of the entire project needs to be re-engineered.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

muller877

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
1,688
Reaction score
756
High water table around the south end of Grenadier Pond. Boreholes were dug at the end of the previous year, before our wet spring.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Imagine a place that was a swamp before it was infilled has a high water table.

Seriously before they got quotes some pilot holes should have been drilled to confirm the water table where they know there might be an issue. Instead of getting a competitive quote they are paying premium dollars for out of scope work.

The procurement department in the TTC needs to become professional.
 

cplchanb

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
2,133
Reaction score
1,292
Imagine a place that was a swamp before it was infilled has a high water table.

Seriously before they got quotes some pilot holes should have been drilled to confirm the water table where they know there might be an issue. Instead of getting a competitive quote they are paying premium dollars for out of scope work.

The procurement department in the TTC needs to become professional.

hmm fair enough on needing to reengineer the structural part of this. Another fine example of the competency of TTC infrastructure management
 

Maltesefalcon

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
80
Reaction score
29
This from the link in the Rick Leary story above:

In an email Friday, a spokesperson for the company insisted it remains “on track to deliver all 204 streetcars by the end of the original contract deadline.”

I'm glad Mr Leary has called out Bombardier on their nonsense. You cannot be "on track" if you are not up to date on the incremental deadlines. Bombardier can say they intend to complete the contract by end of 2019, but that is not the same thing. In addition to the 76 units promised for 2018, they will eventually need to make up for the missed shipments from 2017, as the schedule they issued in November has not officially been updated. So depending on your interpretation, either 33 or 35 cars from 2017 plus 76 for 2018 would mean the 111th vehicle should be at least built, if not shipped by 12/31/18. If not, they are not on track.
 

cplchanb

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
2,133
Reaction score
1,292
This from the link in the Rick Leary story above:

In an email Friday, a spokesperson for the company insisted it remains “on track to deliver all 204 streetcars by the end of the original contract deadline.”

I'm glad Mr Leary has called out Bombardier on their nonsense. You cannot be "on track" if you are not up to date on the incremental deadlines. Bombardier can say they intend to complete the contract by end of 2019, but that is not the same thing. In addition to the 76 units promised for 2018, they will eventually need to make up for the missed shipments from 2017, as the schedule they issued in November has not officially been updated. So depending on your interpretation, either 33 or 35 cars from 2017 plus 76 for 2018 would mean the 111th vehicle should be at least built, if not shipped by 12/31/18. If not, they are not on track.

have they sent anything out last week? Doesnt give much confidence if they didnt hit 2018 running.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
17,179
Reaction score
13,262
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
4458 is still having issues and looks like it fail its first testing based on the amount of burn in runs it has been doing since it started the burn in. It been in the Barns since Sat and was expecting it to be in service now, but up north somewhere based on the GPS location.

Only 7 ALRV's out in service with one as a black arrow, what every that means and is new.

Any sighting of 4461 that was supposed in transit before year end??

Lets see what Jan 30 say for delivery as it will set the stage for another year of miss deliveries.
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,606
Reaction score
4,959
Imagine a place that was a swamp before it was infilled has a high water table.

Seriously before they got quotes some pilot holes should have been drilled to confirm the water table where they know there might be an issue. Instead of getting a competitive quote they are paying premium dollars for out of scope work.

The procurement department in the TTC needs to become professional.

How is the TTC - or the contractor - supposed to anticipate an almost historically wet winter and spring? When they drilled the boreholes in the fall, things were fine. The problems only arose when they went to excavate the ROW in the spring and found water at the bottom of the excavation.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
17,179
Reaction score
13,262
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
There is 8 ALRV on 501 running west only as far as Roncy Loop. The black is now for 501con

Just reported
The auction for the 29 Salt Lake City ex-San Jose UTDC cars closed already. Only one was officially sold. The rest had “Reserve Partially Met” prices ranging from USD $850 to $1900. So far, I’ve been unable to determine the buyers. But except for the one “Sold” car, looks like they’re going to scrap.

4458 still lost up north
 
Last edited:

Top