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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

pstogios

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Bombardier has made an effort to downplay their ineptitude.




Let’s see what happens in 2018. If Bombardier can really get 17 units delivered in the first quarter, I will be convinced they have turned themselves around.

Thanks for the nice summary.

Given the track record just described, does anyone really believe that Snake Oil Co. can turn things around?
 

Maltesefalcon

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I think they are psychologically preparing the TTC for an extension into 2020. They have added an extra month (November) to the 2019 run. Yet they only would be building 1 car in tbat month. I find it hard to believe they can't find a bit of slack in the remaining 22 months of the contract to slip in 1 extra car.

Oh did I say extra? They have not re-scheduled the cars 60,61, 62 or 63 which were supposed to be 2017. If that is now going to be the ones for Jan/18 then there will be more added at the end.

And no I really don't think they can build 6 cars a month right now. I think they could possibly build and ship one per week. Not 76 as scheduled, but certainly an improvement.
 

duper

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I think they are psychologically preparing the TTC for an extension into 2020.

I believe their contract stipulates 2019 for full delivery. While they have not met their delivery schedule, they are holding firm on the 2019 deadline (for what it's worth. While 2018 is a very tight delivery schedule, 2019 is not so tight. I can see the bulk of the deliveries being pushed into 2019.

As for the number per week, they had increased their pace of production from 1 per month to 1 per week at their best. I believe their target is 3 per week. We shall see. I would hope that the supply chain issues (which are getting better) should continue to improve the longer they are producing them.
 

duper

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Sure wish there was something positive to talk about on this thread. I hope to see more pictures of deliveries the next time I pop by. [fingerscrossed]
 

W. K. Lis

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TTC prepares ‘Plan B’ after delays to Bombardier streetcar order

In his first sit-down interview with the Star since being appointed acting CEO of the TTC, Rick Leary breaks with the agency’s former boss and suggests Bombardier's 2019 deadline is unrealistic.

From link.

rick_leary.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x664.jpg

Toronto Transit Commission acting CEO Rick Leary in his office at TTC headquarters on Jan. 4. A native of Boston, Leary began his career working as a train attendant. (Andrew Francis Wallace / Toronto Star)

The new acting head of the TTC has split with his former boss and admitted the transit agency is preparing for the possibility Bombardier will be unable to deliver the entirety of the city’s new streetcar fleet by the end of next year.

In a wide-ranging interview in the seventh-floor corner office at TTC headquarters recently vacated by former chief executive officer Andy Byford, acting CEO Rick Leary said he was “putting a Plan B together” in the event the streetcar order is not completed as scheduled.

Under the original terms of the $1-billion purchase, Bombardier was supposed to deliver all 204 new vehicles by the end of 2019. But the company has consistently blown deadlines; it was supposed to have supplied a total of 148 cars by the end of 2017, but instead managed just 59.

Byford, who left the TTC in December for New York City Transit, insisted throughout his tenure that despite repeated setbacks he wouldn’t allow Bombardier to miss the 2019 end-date.

But in a break from that stance, Leary suggested the original timeline is no longer realistic and said the TTC can’t afford to be unprepared if the fleet isn’t delivered on time. The agency is currently making up the shortage by running buses on some streetcar routes and keeping streetcars that are more than 30 years old in service for longer than intended.

“There’s no doubt it’s in jeopardy. I probably shouldn’t go that far, but it’s in jeopardy,” Leary said of the 2019 target.

“I’ve been buying trains and streetcars and buses for 15, 18 years. I don’t want to say that (Bombardier is) not going to make the end of ’19, but I would say I have asked them for a real, true realistic schedule.”...
 

nfitz

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This doesn't have to do with the Flexity's and the s**tshow that is Bombardier. Munro says so right in his quoted Twitter posts.
It has a lot to do with the Flexity's.

The 30 (or is it now 20) remaining ALRvs may now be around longer, with TTC's stupid decision to second guess and rethink the the option on exercising the option and getting 60 more Bombardier Flexity vehicles.

What is off-topic, is complaining that on-topic discussion is off-topic. Just because a relative novice transit user such as yourself (who admitted ages ago, that they only ever use the 510) doesn't understand the relationship, doesn't mean it's not there.

And buses on 505 and buses on 506...but wasn't that supposed to be in February? Hard to believe so many of the CLRVs are dead in the water because of the cold. But it is damn cold.
Yes, February. I've seen nothing but streetcars on 506 all weekend. And now it's going to be warm for the next week, streetcars will be back. However TTC moved a lot of the already scheduled 504 peak runs using buses to 505, and those 505 cars to 504, to increase capacity in the King pilot area.

February is a mix of streetcar shortage, and the desire to get more equipment for 504.


Bombardier has not built a good product since the T1s.
I don't think that's true. In Toronto alone, the GO equipment seems fine. And the TR implementation went better than many similar projects.

Even TTC has been very positive about the Flexity quality - it's the quantity that was the issue. Though they are now rolling off the assembly line much faster than originally planned.

And no I really don't think they can build 6 cars a month right now. I think they could possibly build and ship one per week. Not 76 as scheduled, but certainly an improvement.
They shipped 16 in the last 3 calendar months. And the other 2 they'd hoped to ship are apparently all but done waiting for some parts to arrive. That's 64 a year, and almost 72 a year. 76 isn't that impossible.

I believe their target is 3 per week.
The target is about 3 a fortnight, not 3 a week!

3 per week? Thats 156 per year give or take. Pretty ambitious if they could pull that one off.
That might be for all Flexity's produced in Canada, including the Toronto, Waterloo, and Edmonton cars.

The TTC target is 76 per year. About 1.5 a week. They ramped up to over 1.2 a week last quarter.

If we do a comparison of the total cars shipped, they are currently short 11 out of the 70 that should have been on hand on Dec 31/2017. That’s a 15.7% shortfall.
And about 4 weeks production.

The tally was altered several times, but in the waning days of November/December the “schedule” was altered for months that had already passed by.
No it didn't. TTC didn't publish it in the CEO report until weeks after they received it. Probably about 6 weeks.

Let’s see what happens in 2018. If Bombardier can really get 17 units delivered in the first quarter, I will be convinced they have turned themselves around.
Better for for shipped. As 2 of the 16 they shipped in the last quarter, didn't get delivered until 2018. Or else you'll be double counting, as they are already at 2.

Though with Christmas, I would be happy if the 2nd quarter hits target.

Not that having all the cars by end of 2020 is the worst case scenario. It's a far site better than some of the scenarios floating around a couple of years ago!
 
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smallspy

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Yes, the refurbishment program itself was intended to offset the delays to the Flexity deliveries even in 2015, but since that time it is evident the TTC is failing at refurbishing them.

The ALRV refurbishment program was solely intended to keep them around until 2024 or 2025 to help improve service above and beyond the 204 Flexities - and try and hold the TTC over until the next streetcar procurement. If there was going to be one.

In Flexity news, 4460 was delivered on Friday.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

drum118

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I wonder if TTC could grab the San Jose-UTA UTDC cars which are essentially ALRV's except for the ends.

Probably available pretty cheap not sure what shape they are in, doubt they have heat systems suitable for Toronto winters though. but they have round wheels and roll. Requaging is minor
 

44 North

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I had a looked at the Queensway in Dec and all the rails are in place with concrete pour for them. Overhead support still missing for much of it as well the overhead. Never got a look at the loop at all.

The section from the loop to Park Lawn should be finish in Feb, subject to the weather, not the plan Dec date.

Didn't know it was planned to finish by Dec. I guess it's not as far behind as I thought. Still though would like to see these things completed in a shorter timeframe. 24h work windows being most optimal, at least for work that's less noisy.

It's way more difficult than simply "hopping in the seat and off you go". I woudn't recommend trying it, but if you were to do so you wouldn't get very far.

I honestly don't know how easy, and actually was under the impression once online there is no ignition key or security transponder. At least for the A/CLRVs, but again not sure. If the driver hopped out to operate a switch or grab a coffee, and there is no mechanism to prevent theft, do think it's surprising that all these years someone hasn't decided to zip off in one. After I posted I read an article about a boy in Melbourne that did so, but less nefarious in that he made all the stops.
 

drum118

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Didn't know it was planned to finish by Dec. I guess it's not as far behind as I thought. Still though would like to see these things completed in a shorter timeframe. 24h work windows being most optimal, at least for work that's less noisy..
The section from Park Lawn to the Loop was to be done by Dec 2017 with the Queensway being Feb.

Construction crews have a pile of fool drivers wanting to go west on Lake Shore when there is a one way sign telling these fools to go east in the first place. That one way sign has been there for years. Almost a few head on's with the construction crew flagging these drivers to stop and turn around.

Its a night crew doing this work with the day crew doing the Queensway.

This was on Dec 15
 

smallspy

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Didn't know it was planned to finish by Dec. I guess it's not as far behind as I thought. Still though would like to see these things completed in a shorter timeframe. 24h work windows being most optimal, at least for work that's less noisy.

24 hour work windows won't help when a problem is found that is so severe that a portion of the entire project needs to be re-engineered.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

muller877

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High water table around the south end of Grenadier Pond. Boreholes were dug at the end of the previous year, before our wet spring.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Imagine a place that was a swamp before it was infilled has a high water table.

Seriously before they got quotes some pilot holes should have been drilled to confirm the water table where they know there might be an issue. Instead of getting a competitive quote they are paying premium dollars for out of scope work.

The procurement department in the TTC needs to become professional.
 

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