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TTC Cartography, Signage, and Wayfinding

W. K. Lis said:
How about orange for the streetcar routes, to show up different but almost the same, as the red bus routes? Or a different shade of red streetcar routes?
Click to expand...

Streetcars don't need to be coloured different unless they start using honour fare system. They operate just like normal buses, and sometimes those routes are served by buses, so there is not point in differentiating them.

Btw, what really strikes about that map is how map "frequent service" routes are in the suburbs. The suburbs are such a drain on the city, it is sad. Toronto would be so much better off it wasn't obligated to operate empty buses in car-dependent suburbs. Hopefully, the next mayor of Toronto will be more downtown friendly and those suburban lines will become thin and the city lines will become thick, and so the service would reflect the actual demand.
 
doady said:
Streetcars don't need to be coloured different unless they start using honour fare system. They operate just like normal buses, and sometimes those routes are served by buses, so there is not point in differentiating them.

Btw, what really strikes about that map is how map "frequent service" routes are in the suburbs. The suburbs are such a drain on the city, it is sad. Toronto would be so much better off it wasn't obligated to operate empty buses in car-dependent suburbs. Hopefully, the next mayor of Toronto will be more downtown friendly and those suburban lines will become thin and the city lines will become thick, and so the service would reflect the actual demand.
Click to expand...

Are you sure they don't reflect demand? If the buses were empty why are they being operated as frequent service? I don't see how being in the old city necessarily corresponds to lower demand on particular routes.
 
I can't believe that they printed all the routes in red.

They used to do this years ago, because they only used 2 colours on the map. Black for roads, and red for routes. Surely we don't have to stick to 1940s standards. I can think of numerous other cities that have no problem using different colours for different routes.

Also, they've removed all the other agencies bus routes (GO, Miway, Brampton (Biway? :), York, GO, Durham, etc. How does this help? They don't even show where TTC routes that cross outside of Toronto go!

Massive fail!
 
nfitz said:
I can't believe that they printed all the routes in red.

They used to do this years ago, because they only used 2 colours on the map. Black for roads, and red for routes. Surely we don't have to stick to 1940s standards. I can think of numerous other cities that have no problem using different colours for different routes.

Also, they've removed all the other agencies bus routes (GO, Miway, Brampton (Biway? :), York, GO, Durham, etc. How does this help? They don't even show where TTC routes that cross outside of Toronto go!

Massive fail!
Click to expand...

Yeah, count me in as "unimpressed" with this latest map.

I think that the design is too much of a "heritage throwback" to early Ride Guide designs, and therefore not very informative for transit use. This is a TTC map, but it should really be repurposed for all transit providers (that was what the last generation of route maps attempted to do), since transit use, even within the City of Toronto, isn't all about the TTC.

For example, why are GO train lines undifferentiated from each other and why are they drawn in (more like barely etched in) with 1967-era fonts? The Lakeshore line, for example, is practically rapid transit and the logical choice for anyone traveling from, say, anywhere in South Scarborough east of Markham road to downtown, or from the Long Branch/New Toronto area.

As you said, why aren't 905 providers included? Why aren't TTC routes that cross the city's boundaries included? Why are GO buses, some of which are immensely useful for travel exclusively within the City of Toronto, gone? Why are the Island ferries missing?

Why are the subway strip maps and transit connection points gone? They contained valuable information, like what surface routes they connect to, and which of those routes require a transfer.

Finally, I don't like how the route numbers are off to the side again. I liked the hexagons, and would hope that they can reincorporate the route numbers directly into the line in some way, rather than position them off to the side, which is often confusing and almost illegible (see, for example, the branch of lines along Eglinton Ave. East as far as Leslie).

Why is the freeway system missing? Even if no TTC buses travel on the 401, 427, DVP/404, etc., they are psychologically important for orienting yourself in the city. Why are universities the only landmarks or centres of higher learning marked (barely)? Are the thousands of students who commute to Community Colleges or the thousands of commuters and patients trying to reach hospitals unimportant?

Having a thicker line for frequent service is about the only thing this map has to recommend it.
 
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I really do like the 'all branches' indicator !
 
doady said:
Streetcars don't need to be coloured different unless they start using honour fare system. They operate just like normal buses, and sometimes those routes are served by buses, so there is not point in differentiating them.

Btw, what really strikes about that map is how map "frequent service" routes are in the suburbs. The suburbs are such a drain on the city, it is sad. Toronto would be so much better off it wasn't obligated to operate empty buses in car-dependent suburbs. Hopefully, the next mayor of Toronto will be more downtown friendly and those suburban lines will become thin and the city lines will become thick, and so the service would reflect the actual demand.
Click to expand...

The TTC is known for serving the suburbs well by running frequent buses on concession roads, and the thing is, these bus routes DO have good ridership.
For example, Finch East & West both have 44,000 a day, pretty good ridership considering 501 Queen has 43,500.
Lawrence, York Mills & Sheppard have pretty good ridership as well.

Even though the suburbs were built for cars, people still take transit because:
-traffic during rush hour is terrible, and they are taking the bus to a subway station
-they are commuting to work downtown or in an area where parking is unavailable or expensive
-they can't afford a car, like many of those who live in lower-income suburban apartment buildings (Ex. Dixon road, Jane & Finch)

Of course, I agree with you that downtown service needs to improve, but it's just not true that the buses in the suburbs are empty.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Transit_Planning/Surface_Ridership_2012.jsp
 
doady said:
Streetcars don't need to be coloured different unless they start using honour fare system. They operate just like normal buses, and sometimes those routes are served by buses, so there is not point in differentiating them.

Btw, what really strikes about that map is how map "frequent service" routes are in the suburbs. The suburbs are such a drain on the city, it is sad. Toronto would be so much better off it wasn't obligated to operate empty buses in car-dependent suburbs. Hopefully, the next mayor of Toronto will be more downtown friendly and those suburban lines will become thin and the city lines will become thick, and so the service would reflect the actual demand.
Click to expand...

Umm.... no. The suburbs deserve frequent service, even if busses aren't 100% full.
 
DavidH said:
The 400-series community bus routes are shown in a different colour despite having the numbers for differentiation, so there is no reason streetcars couldn't do the same.

For regular riders it's not needed, but I think a separate colour would help new riders and visitors.
Click to expand...

Streetcars and buses are the same thing: local routes on streets. They provide the same basic service. I'm glad to see the dumb "streetcar rapid transit" stricken - as if Spadina was rapid. That said, I like streetcars - and they still have 5xx numbers.
 
ehlow said:
It seems like a big improvement. Emphasizing frequent routes makes sense (I guess they've read Human Transit).
Click to expand...

Human Transit isn't just pushing frequent service lines on maps (though it seems to be big on those).
 
EVENT: Connecting The Dots of transit wayfinding in the GTHA

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2015/03/11/event-connecting-dots-transit-wayfinding-gtha/

MISSISSAUGA EVENT
WHAT: Connecting The Dots: Mississauga event
WHEN: Tuesday, March 24, 7-9pm
WHERE: Sheridan College, Hazel McCallion campus, 4180 Duke of York Blvd., Mississauga
COST: Free!
TICKETS: Reserve your MISSISSAUGA tickets at Eventbrite
(please note that there will be tickets available at the door)

TORONTO EVENT
WHAT: Connecting The Dots: Toronto event
WHEN: Wednesday, March 25, 6:30-9pm
WHERE: Isabel Bader Theatre, 93 Charles St. W., Toronto
COST: Free!
TICKETS: Reserve your TORONTO tickets at Eventbrite
(please note that there will be tickets available at the door)

ABOUT THE EVENT
“Am I at the right stop?” “Which direction am I going?” “Which exit do I want?”

At its best, transit wayfinding — the maps, signs, graphics and other information that help transit users navigate — can simplify complex networks and encourage transit use by helping to answer the questions transit users ask throughout their journeys. At its worst, poor wayfinding can make using transit a confusing and stressful experience.

Please join us for an evening — in either Mississauga or Toronto — to learn more about transit wayfinding, with a lecture by Tim Fendley, founder and owner of UK-based Applied Wayfinding, who designed Vancouver’s new transit wayfinding system and the award-winning “Legible London” pedestrian wayfinding system; and by Helen Kerr of Toronto-based KerrSmith Design whose citizen-centered innovation projects include “Economic Futures for Ontario” and “Re-Imagining Detroit.” Tim Fendley and Helen Kerr are working together on the Transit Wayfinding Harmonization initiative being undertaken jointly by the ten transit agencies of the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) to seamlessly connect existing transit systems into a legible network. They’ll discuss the harmonization opportunity that exists for the GTHA, challenges presented by the complexity of this region, and insights from initial design research that is being used to develop a user-centred vision for regional transit wayfinding.

In order to bring you this event, Spacing has partnered with Metrolinx, Ryerson University’s City Builders Institute, Sheridan College, and Daniels Faculty of Architecture, Landscape, and Design, and Urban Strategies

---------------

If I was in Toronto, I'd be there. I think this is going to give a real vision into the future look and feel of transit in the GTHA.
 
CDL.TO said:
If I was in Toronto, I'd be there. I think this is going to give a real vision into the future look and feel of transit in the GTHA.
Click to expand...

Doubt it. The TTC likes to take ideas from other agencies like MTA and produce a lower quality product due to ineptitude or budget constraints.
 
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