News   Aug 08, 2022
 44     0 
News   Aug 05, 2022
 1.1K     0 
News   Aug 05, 2022
 3.6K     7 

TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

Jonny5

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
3,580
Reaction score
1,411
legally speaking she does have a point. The ttc knows that people falling onto tracks is a problem, but have they made enough of an effort to either warn people or make it safer.

Think of the reason why wet floor signs exist.

offhand the tactile stripe and the announcements exist, but is that enough legally speaking?
Ya, these things are always trotted out in the media for entertainment with no context. The reality here is an insurance company battle which is out of control of either the TTC or the victim. The cost of the insurance payout has to be determined and then split between the victim's medical/disability insurance carrier, and the TTC's property owner's liability insurance carrier. Neither wants to pay anything (because insurance companies never want to pay claims), so here we are with both sides driving to litigation to settle this.

These are Tort cases, so determining who is at fault is essential. "Fault" is almost always split as a percentage between the involved parties, but neither side was the perpatrator of the crime. So how do you say who is at fault when neither were at fault for the direct cause of the injury? The answer is this sensationalist litigation process now underway. The TTC's liability insurance company would almost certainly demand they counter-sue so that the medical insurance company has to pay, because after all, isn't that what medical and disability insurance is supposed to be for? Why should the TTC's insurance company pay her lost wages when she has her own "lost wages from injury (disability)" insurance?*

If the TTC refused to participate here it would basically void their insurance contract, and it would lead to a future with a new carrier that would certainly bill even higher premiums and even higher deductibles, if not far higher. Going before a judge to determine all of this is a very normal practice, but our revenue-starved media thrive on sensationalist infotainment junk news, and this produces something so tasty they can't help themselves. I mean, right now, sports gambling, pawn brokers, and bankruptcy specialists is all that's keeping them on the air. Gotta get more eyeballs on those! The reality is the trial will delve into much more detailed nuances than have been presented in these court briefs, but either way, the TTC had to counter-sue because their insurance company would never allow them to admit guilt without immediately voiding the policy.

*All of the above assumes the victim has such insurance I noted, which most white-collar or unionised workers all have by default in their group benefits package, but I don't know for certain she does or is even in one of those categories of workers. I don't actually know anyone involved here.
 
Last edited:

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
24,974
Reaction score
5,616
Location
Toronto
One can understand the legal rationale for an argument while also finding it distasteful.
I don't understand the legal argument.

Surely TTC stating that they were aware that standing behind the yellow is too close to the tracks, implies they are negligent in not extending the yellow. How is that statement helping them? If anything it can be used against them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: max

AHK

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,538
Reaction score
4,958
Yet another reason for subway platform screen doors - something that the TTC should initiate planning for a staged implementation, prioritizing the busier stations on Line 1.

Really hard to believe that removing a bicycle tire thrown on the tracks at Queen Station would shut down Line 1 for almost two hours this morning. As the song says: Send in the clowns - Don't bother - They're Here


A bicycle wheel thrown onto the tracks shut down TTC subway service for almost 2 hour​

Metal rim contacted the power rail, causing the rubber to smoke​

CBC News · Posted: Jun 20, 2022 11:04 AM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

ttc-subway-passengers-on-platform.jpg

If your morning commute was upended by the Line 1 closure, blame the bike wheel that ended up on the tracks near Queen Station. (Evan Mitsui/CBC)


A bicycle wheel thrown onto the track shut down TTC subway service on a stretch of Line 1 for more than 90 minutes Monday morning.

Stuart Green, spokesperson for the transit agency, said security video showed a person chuck the wheel onto the northbound track near Queen Station shortly after 6:30 a.m.
The metal rim made contact with the power rail, which has 600 volts of electricity running through it. That caused the rubber to start smoking. The incident was initially reported as a fire.

For safety reasons, the TTC had to halt all service between Bloor-Yonge and Union stations.

Firefighters and TTC mechanics were called but it took until 8:30 a.m. to get trains running again.

Green said the security video will be shared with police.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
20,207
Reaction score
47,872
Location
Toronto/EY
Yet another reason for subway platform screen doors - something that the TTC should initiate planning for a staged implementation, prioritizing the busier stations on Line 1.

Really hard to believe that removing a bicycle tire thrown on the tracks at Queen Station would shut down Line 1 for almost two hours this morning. As the song says: Send in the clowns - Don't bother - They're Here


A bicycle wheel thrown onto the tracks shut down TTC subway service for almost 2 hour​

Metal rim contacted the power rail, causing the rubber to smoke​

CBC News · Posted: Jun 20, 2022 11:04 AM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

ttc-subway-passengers-on-platform.jpg

If your morning commute was upended by the Line 1 closure, blame the bike wheel that ended up on the tracks near Queen Station. (Evan Mitsui/CBC)


A bicycle wheel thrown onto the track shut down TTC subway service on a stretch of Line 1 for more than 90 minutes Monday morning.

Stuart Green, spokesperson for the transit agency, said security video showed a person chuck the wheel onto the northbound track near Queen Station shortly after 6:30 a.m.
The metal rim made contact with the power rail, which has 600 volts of electricity running through it. That caused the rubber to start smoking. The incident was initially reported as a fire.

For safety reasons, the TTC had to halt all service between Bloor-Yonge and Union stations.

Firefighters and TTC mechanics were called but it took until 8:30 a.m. to get trains running again.

Green said the security video will be shared with police.

There should also be independent power blocks between each set of cross-overs.

They should have been able to run service at least down to College.
 

AHK

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,538
Reaction score
4,958
Yet another reason for subway platform screen doors - something that the TTC should initiate planning for a staged implementation, prioritizing the busier stations on Line 1.

Really hard to believe that removing a bicycle tire thrown on the tracks at Queen Station would shut down Line 1 for almost two hours this morning. As the song says: Send in the clowns - Don't bother - They're Here


A bicycle wheel thrown onto the tracks shut down TTC subway service for almost 2 hour​

Metal rim contacted the power rail, causing the rubber to smoke​

CBC News · Posted: Jun 20, 2022 11:04 AM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

ttc-subway-passengers-on-platform.jpg

If your morning commute was upended by the Line 1 closure, blame the bike wheel that ended up on the tracks near Queen Station. (Evan Mitsui/CBC)


A bicycle wheel thrown onto the track shut down TTC subway service on a stretch of Line 1 for more than 90 minutes Monday morning.

Stuart Green, spokesperson for the transit agency, said security video showed a person chuck the wheel onto the northbound track near Queen Station shortly after 6:30 a.m.
The metal rim made contact with the power rail, which has 600 volts of electricity running through it. That caused the rubber to start smoking. The incident was initially reported as a fire.

For safety reasons, the TTC had to halt all service between Bloor-Yonge and Union stations.

Firefighters and TTC mechanics were called but it took until 8:30 a.m. to get trains running again.

Green said the security video will be shared with police.

Further on what may be for many a somewhat obscure song reference - the words: Send in the clowns - Don't bother - They're Here (referring to all the parties involved in taking two hours to remover a bicycle tire from the subway tracks and restore service). The song Send In The Clowns was part of the 1973 Broadway show 'A Little Night Music' by the late Stephen Sondheim.

A YouTube video of Judy Collins singing the entire song, Send In The Clowns, can be seen here:
 

TopOfRail

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
2
Reaction score
3
Does anyone know if the TTC has ever considered alternatives to platform screen doors? I took the TTC at the weekend and walked past the maintenance walkways at the end of the platform (at St Clair West) and noticed they have basic handrails mounted to the platform structure, which is cantilevered as with the rest of the platform. It reminded me of some of the Japanese platform barriers, which are merely railings with openings where the doors will be.

tokyo-first-time-on-the-shinkansen-85673.jpg

https://a1.cdn.japantravel.com/photo/14456-85673/800!/tokyo-first-time-on-the-shinkansen-85673.jpg

Sure, this by no means protects against all and every outcome of passenger safety and train operation, but given the challenges (cost, engineering, etc.) of implementing automatic platform screen doors, could this be a feasible retrofit that provides some level of protection? Throw in some wiring, lights, speakers for warnings and maybe these "soft measures" can help reduce the number of incidents.
 

generalcanada

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
485
Reaction score
939
Does anyone know if the TTC has ever considered alternatives to platform screen doors? I took the TTC at the weekend and walked past the maintenance walkways at the end of the platform (at St Clair West) and noticed they have basic handrails mounted to the platform structure, which is cantilevered as with the rest of the platform. It reminded me of some of the Japanese platform barriers, which are merely railings with openings where the doors will be.

tokyo-first-time-on-the-shinkansen-85673.jpg

https://a1.cdn.japantravel.com/photo/14456-85673/800!/tokyo-first-time-on-the-shinkansen-85673.jpg

Sure, this by no means protects against all and every outcome of passenger safety and train operation, but given the challenges (cost, engineering, etc.) of implementing automatic platform screen doors, could this be a feasible retrofit that provides some level of protection? Throw in some wiring, lights, speakers for warnings and maybe these "soft measures" can help reduce the number of incidents.
not exactly sure what that looks like at st clair west, but as far as i can see it still brings the same issues with no benefits that you get with psd's
- trains still need to know how to stop exactly at the same location
- not sure why shinkansen trains dont have PSD's but suicides and trash can easily be thrown onto the tracks. maybe its a culture thing?
 

kEiThZ

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
11,055
Reaction score
6,014
After riding the Elizabeth Line in London, all I can say is that this what all systems should aspire to with their upgrades. I would actually support delaying extensions (beyond what is already under construction) to completely recapitalize the existing network with enclosed platforms, improved signalling and compatible rolling stock. Toss in open payments while we're at it. The usability and comfort of the system is such an improvement, it could actually make up for the longer bus ride to access the system.
 

11th

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Messages
1,011
Reaction score
490
not exactly sure what that looks like at st clair west, but as far as i can see it still brings the same issues with no benefits that you get with psd's
- trains still need to know how to stop exactly at the same location
- not sure why shinkansen trains dont have PSD's but suicides and trash can easily be thrown onto the tracks. maybe its a culture thing?
They do have PSDs at shinkansen platforms, perhaps not network-wide.

1620px-JR-Central-Tokyo-STA_Home14-15.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...media/File:JR-Central-Tokyo-STA_Home14-15.jpg
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
20,207
Reaction score
47,872
Location
Toronto/EY

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
20,207
Reaction score
47,872
Location
Toronto/EY
That's great news.

I can't remember, was Line 4 already done?

No.

It was in the original plans for Line 4, but cut during the Harris cutbacks that saw the line stopped at Don Mills instead of VP and the budget for station finishes cut. (PEDs were in the original plans too)
 

Top