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Transit Fantasy Maps

MrGoose

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Bureaucromancer

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The Kingston - Queensway Line is really long and it might make sense to break it in half like the 504

Also why have it miss Scarborough GO and Dixie GO?

Good path to retaining the Dufferin / Cherry routes. Although I now realize I’ve forgotten to stick a king surface route on here (though it’s probably skippable with a properly local oriented subway). The combination route is definitely longer than ideal

I wouldn’t call this a skip of Scarborough GO - though in a specific design some deviation would be nice.

As far as Dixie, I’d absolutely support rerouting that way if there is some other 427 rapid transit, so in other word, it probably is a better option.

Edit: reworked the map to show this, and threw in a couple other things I'd really like for the streetcar network.
 
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blacksquirrels

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I mean honestly, this isn't surprising with either Toronto's geography or a budget.

My take is that at the end of the day, the next thing that approaches a downtown connection really is the GO Midtown. Beyond that, what further downtown transit could even be anticipated?

Realistically the possibilities would seem to be:
  • some kind of enhanced surface service on Bay
  • surface imrpovements on the streetcar lines
  • a GO tunnel
  • A second relief line would seem vaguely possible in the long term, being something of a mirror of the OL, entering from a northerly direction and dipping south, but the details are really very vague
    • I wonder if this might actually be most appropriately done with creation of an underground streetcar corridor - a King tunnel inspired by the 1945 Queen plan would actually seem a very nice supplement to the OL
  • Edit: some kind of surface lanes for accessing the Union Station Bus Terminal would seem possibly reasonable, but we probably are headed in the direction of limiting the number of busses going all the way there.
as far as what I could see as an enhanced streetcar network that actually fits with the OL, contemplate something like the below,with today's routes using it, and purely surface routes operating on the core segments only:

View attachment 427900

a GO tunnel either under Wellington or the GO corridor itself makes more sense.
 

LemonCondo

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Can't be that hard to put a little precast concrete parking curb on the outside of the dotted line and paint a "NO CARS" sign on the roadway. Theres just no political will to making the streetcars run faster

View attachment 427955
View attachment 427956

But we can't get rid of street parking in a major downtown core that already has probably some of the highest amounts of underground parking for any given downtown in the world!! That would be impossible! Think about the businesses that will shut down due to not having space to accommodate exactly two cars in front of them instead of allowing for a vastly improved streetcar line able to transport thousands of people a day!
 

sunnyside

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Latest version of this fantasy map by this Twitter user:

Generally I like this, but I have some questions and comments. First, what is the diversion going around Dundurn-Locke for? And where would that realistically go? There isn't exactly room around Dundas. Some of these lines are too close together, for visual purposes- Richmond Hill and Stouffville (now just tracks for other services, but I digress) are not the same line, and should have some distance between them. With the number of services in the east, I think you are going to have to further distort the GO map from here. There is not really room to cram this all in without it looking congested. Because many of these are interlined services, why not make the strokes narrower when they converge? I understand you want to show the higher levels of service, but the USRC and RH-Stouffville corridor(s) look kind of silly being this large. Essentially, if you are going to make the map geographically inaccurate, you may as well try to space things out to be as visually appealing and representative of the user experience as possible.
 

AlxOptimism

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.

North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
 

TossYourJacket

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If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?
Cut and Cover tunnels don't win votes. Building transit in Scarborough has become more about winning votes than actually serving the people of Scarborough. So any extension beyond the SSE would unfortunately be done via a deep bored tunnel, and cost an absurd amount of money as a result.

That said, I do agree with your point that northern Scarborough is ignored on many fantasy transit maps. That said, building a series of BRT lines on major arterials might be better than a single subway extension.
 

DirectionNorth

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.
There's been some debate about how to build a Jane corridor. Some, including myself, have suggested a western Ontario Line extension onto Jane. We will see whether the line has enough capacity for that in 2030.
North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
A Malvern extension of the SRT would have been a good way to extend train service into the heart of Northern Scarborough. It's too late now, that train has left the station (the planet?).

I think that with that in mind, a network of BRT-light serving Scarborough (and indeed the whole city), and feeding into a Sheppard East Subway and SSE, would be the best solution going forwards. This would include Stouffville GO as RER, another service which would allow for more connections with fare integration (but that's another topic that we could spend hundreds of pages talking about).
 

sunnyside

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.

North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
There are many, many areas that transit fantasy maps here omit.
 

11th

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.

North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
If done right, from McCowan, line 4 can easily be extended to serve Malvern without much tunneling.
 

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