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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

DavidH

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W I think you'd be very hard pressed replacing the SRT with a simple LRT ... unless 3+ cars together.
Don't equate an LRT-conversion of the SRT with, say, Sheppard East. It would retain its private ROW and stations; it would simply run with LRT vehicles in whatever train lengths the TTC deem appropriate. This is not a problem.
 

unimaginative2

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Once again this isn't really a Miller issue ... It's TTC issue. The Mayor of a city / premier / primeminister doesn't make to many decisions on their own. They're not an expert in every category, they're told by the various departments and their advisors what to build. In this case Mayor Miller was told the Transit city option would be the best.

That's unfortunately just not accurate. Departments operate with political direction. This is most obvious since shortly before Miller got elected, the TTC recommended extensive subway expansion and no new light rail as the "best option". Miller came with a pro-LRT agenda, for good or ill, and the TTC responded. It's the same way that the same bureaucracy recommended slashing welfare as the best option to Mike Harris, and increasing welfare rates as the best option to Dalton McGuinty.
 

taal

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To be honest I really don't think that's the case ....
I think the TTC with the budget they had thought that would be the better plan.

If the TTC told Miller, no this is what we ought to do, he's most likely listen not knowing any better.
 

scarberiankhatru

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To be honest I really don't think that's the case ....
I think the TTC with the budget they had thought that would be the better plan.

If the TTC told Miller, no this is what we ought to do, he's most likely listen not knowing any better.

What budget that they had?

Spacific plans, or, at least, specific principles intended to guide future transit plans and the new official plan, were around shortly before Miller was on the scene, but were changed after he took office.
 

wyliepoon

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as many times as the exposed section of subway between Warden + Victoria Park shuts down ... which I think is quite a few times in winter

SRT shuts down way more often than Warden-Vic Park during the winter.

In fact, over the last two winters I've noticed that the TTC would run shuttle buses paralleling the SRT after every big snowfall, somehow anticipating that the SRT would eventually break down and everybody would have to get onto the shuttle buses.
 

acetradamus

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Arguing about the "total" number of riders on the SRT vs Sheppard Subway is to fail to recognize their indivudual essence.

SRT is a continuation of a subway line and experiences near capacity during off-peak and weekends.

Sheppard Subway is simply a Mon-Fri rush hour route.

Who cares if Sheppard subway is slightly edging the SRT in annual ridership now. The SRT is really just the ridership of the Bloor-Danforth line that would have stayed on the subway had it continued up to STC.

I think a transit route that has a more uniform daily/hourly distribution of riders is more of a success than one that depends entirely upon the rush hour for majority of its ridership.

Sheppard would have been alright if the subway went to Kennedy/McCowan/STC ish with McCowan LRT and Sheppard LRT originating from the eastmost part.
 
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nfitz

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Arguing about the "total" number of riders on the SRT vs Sheppard Subway is to fail to recognize their indivudual essence
I don't think the debate is about the total number of riders on each. There is this myth out there that Sheppard is abysmally low. I simply provided evidence to the contrary.

Sheppard Subway is simply a Mon-Fri rush hour route.
What a bizarre, erroneous, and ignorant statement! I use the Sheppard Subway - but normally off-peak. I can assure you that it still operates off-peak and weekends - and is quite well used - though at least you can get a seat then.
 

taal

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Yes that's exteremly off base.

Most times I've used the sheppard subway (on the weekends) it's been fairly busy. A few times I haven't been able to find seats.

The only thing that can be said about the Sheppard subway is at least at the current moment the majority of riders get on at Yonge and get off at Don Mills.
 

Disparishun

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The only thing that can be said about the Sheppard subway is at least at the current moment the majority of riders get on at Yonge and get off at Don Mills.

It makes sense that the termini have more traffic than the intermediate stations, though, especially on a stub line.

Leslie station seems like it has great potential. Connections to Oriole and to NYGH would have been nice. The Oriole connection, especially, is sort of a continuing missed opportunity. If there's one area where Metrolinx might have been more aggressive, this is it. Imagine Leslie-Oriole as a single station with fare integration, shooting commuters down to Union Station: surely this would alleviate Yonge Line traffic considerably (EDIT: okay, a bunch, anyway -- oftener trains would help, too)?

If the TTC is serious about overcrowding on the Yonge Line, why do they not explore this option?
 

scarberiankhatru

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It makes sense that the termini have more traffic than the intermediate stations, though, especially on a stub line.

Leslie station seems like it has great potential. Connections to Oriole and to NYGH would have been nice. The Oriole connection, especially, is sort of a continuing missed opportunity. If there's one area where Metrolinx might have been more aggressive, this is it. Imagine Leslie-Oriole as a single station with fare integration, shooting commuters down to Union Station: surely this would alleviate Yonge Line traffic considerably (EDIT: okay, a bunch, anyway -- oftener trains would help, too)?

If the TTC is serious about overcrowding on the Yonge Line, why do they not explore this option?

About 1/3 of Sheppard users use Bayview/Bessarion/Leslie, but that % increases every year.

Don't blame the TTC for the lack of a GO connection...the GO station would have to be moved (which will probably happen once fares/systems are integrated).
 

wyliepoon

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What a bizarre, erroneous, and ignorant statement! I use the Sheppard Subway - but normally off-peak. I can assure you that it still operates off-peak and weekends - and is quite well used - though at least you can get a seat then.

One reason the Sheppard Subway is so well-used all the time is because of the excellent kiss-and-ride facility at Don Mills. The SRT doesn't have a facility that comes close to what Don Mills has. That's why during off-peak hours and on weekendss, people in auto-centric north Scarborough would prefer getting a ride to Don Mills station to take the Sheppard Subway than to take the bus to Scarborough Centre, change to the SRT and B-D subway to get downtown.
 

Ansem

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Would killing the Jane LRT save enough money


1-to at least connect Downsview to Sheppard-Yonge
You could upgrade the service on many lines by rerouting the 196 bus when York university station and if Sheppad Yonge was connected to Downsview.

2-Don Mills to STC
Connecting 2 town Centers

3-The whole line
North crosstown with the combination of Finch LRT

4-With all the digging, Jane will be expensive and its not that far from Downsview and the Spadina line.I dont see the point to that line unless its on Kipling or Islington
 
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Towered

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A Jane LRT has a lot of merit, but I think it should be relegated to the inevitable second phase of Transit City. There should be a north-south LRT further west, since Etobicoke didn't get anything. Kipling would be the obvious choice (and Steve Munro did mention that it very narrowly missed out on getting a Transit City line during the planning stages, for some strange reason) but Islington and the 27/427 corridor would also be strong contenders.
 

W. K. Lis

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From the Transit City Light Rail Plan: Status Update for February 2009:
The options for the LRT connection at Don Mills Station on the Sheppard Subway, which were presented in the Environmental Study Report (ESR), are being reviewed in conjunction with the Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan (RTP) and its vision to have a continuous east-west service across northern Toronto via Sheppard and Finch Avenues. An option which would facilitate this, and may be feasible, would be an extension of the Etobicoke-Finch West LRT, east of Yonge Street to Don Mills Road, and then south to meet the Sheppard East LRT at Don Mills Station. Both surface and various grade-separated arrangements for this possible connection at Don Mills Station are being studied. The effects on costs and schedule for the Sheppard East LRT project are being analyzed.

If this will happen (and it is only if) then the options to extend the Sheppard subway might not happen, since the LRT could continue up Don Mills to Finch East, and then continue westward on Finch East and Finch West.
 
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