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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

scarberiankhatru

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Scarborough (L)RT is being extended to at least Sheppard. This is funded. There's no need for two connections between SELRT and SLRT.

Edit: I appreciate that Sheppard & Markham is a somewhat longer way around than Sheppard & Brimley, if one is going North York to STC.

Well, you're not appreciating the real difference, because the Sheppard subway connection would have been via the CN/CP interchange. Going from Kennedy (where the subway would turn), or even from Midland (where the 190 does turn) to Markham Road adds kilometres, stops, and a transfer, is anything but "somewhat longer." It's almost twice the distance and would take twice as long. This wouldn't accommodate North York to Scarborough trips, it would kill them.
 

Hipster Duck

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Scarborough (L)RT is being extended to at least Sheppard. This is funded. There's no need for two connections between SELRT and SLRT.

Edit: I appreciate that Sheppard & Markham is a somewhat longer way around than Sheppard & Brimley, if one is going North York to STC.

Sheppard and Markham is not just a 6km detour for someone going from NYCC to STC, it is also a slap in the face to the important STC node - a natural, geographically central connection point within Scarborough where over a dozen TTC bus lines, GO transit and Greyhound converge.
 

EnviroTO

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I hope SELRT loses funding and gets chopped at Agincourt the same way SEHRT got chopped at Don Mills. Then the Sheppard East corridor would be even more retarded than its planned to be now.

You are hoping for something more retarded? That seems pretty destructive. I would think someone who claims to support transit would hope for the best as far as Transit City is concerned since that is what is going to be built.
 

GTS

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I would like to see a spur line built for the SELRT. Some cars continue east along Sheppard from the future multimodal Agincourt GO/LRT Station and some cars travel south to mobility hub of STC, where many buses and the future SRT(LRT) are going to converge. Not only all the city that use that terminal but all the regional buses as well because of the good access to the highways there. I think if the STC bound LRT cars leave Agincout GO/LRT Station and then travel south on Brimley or Midland and then enter STC Station in a tunnel so it won't interfere with all the bus traffic at the heavily used STC Station.

I recently move here to TO from Vancouver and find all this investment in transit quite amazing in my new city. These Mobility Hubs planned by Metrolinx is really going to spread the weath around here in the GTA.
 

kEiThZ

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I hope SELRT loses funding and gets chopped at Agincourt the same way SEHRT got chopped at Don Mills. Then the Sheppard East corridor would be even more retarded than its planned to be now.

I certainly don't wish that. This is my community you're talking about. I'll fight for something better. But if that fight doesn't pan out, I'll take second best.

I am not too worried though about how all this is going to pan out. Once that LRT comes in, and lo and behold ridership hasn't gone up significantly over the existing bus routes that are there, LRT will be exposed for the expensive compromise that it is and hopefully we'll get a proper debate on Transit City and the future of transit in this city.

I also can't wait for all the average citizens to start bitching about the transfer at Don Mills. "So I am transferring from one train to another one?" In a few years time, if the LRT is successful, Scarborough councillors will face the same kind of resident anger over the transfer at Don Mills as they had a few years ago over the RT. And this is if everything works. If the reliability of this LRT is anything less than people expect, Scarberians will just label it another SRT and grill every politician who was involved.

The next few years are going to be fun....
 

sixrings

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yea but ppl complained about the srt and nothing ever happened. I cant believe after they lay down the new track and realize that this is causing stupid transfers there going to rip it up and instead build a subway.. Rather they will simply convert the sheppard subway... The money that would have gone to making sheppard a subway will be realicated to another line.. a vic park LRT a LAWRENCE LRT.... others who dont have LRT will want it rather then keeping their bus service...
 

kEiThZ

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Sheppard and Markham is not just a 6km detour for someone going from NYCC to STC, it is also a slap in the face to the important STC node - a natural, geographically central connection point within Scarborough where over a dozen TTC bus lines, GO transit and Greyhound converge.

They already showed that they don't care about a Metrolinx designated urban growth centre and transport hub, by not extending the Bloor-Danforth line, so why stop there?

They and Steve Munro, keep trying to downplay the importance of STC, arguing that ridership there is artificial, because several of the bus routes that converge on STC come from Malvern and so you should have higher order transit to Malvern, and STC does not require additional support. Half their argument is true. Malvern does need some form of higher order transit. The other half, about STC being unimportant, is pure hogwash. Even if you take away all the Malvern bus routes (which won't happen since most of them also serve more than Malvern), STC will still be the busiest node in the eastern GTA. It's also the heart of the borough. Government services, the largest and best retail and numerous jobs are all centred around STC. But for some reason, the TTC thinks Don Mills station, Sheppard and Morningside and Kennedy and Eglinton are far more important than STC.
 

Rainforest

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Scarborough (L)RT is being extended to at least Sheppard. This is funded. There's no need for two connections between SELRT and SLRT.

Edit: I appreciate that Sheppard & Markham is a somewhat longer way around than Sheppard & Brimley, if one is going North York to STC.

My estimate for the duration of such trip is about 50 min:
SRT to Sheppard / Markham Rd: 5 min
Transfer: 5 min
SELRT to Don Mills: 27 min
Transfer: 5 min
Subway to Yonge: 5 min

This is much longer than the existing trip using bus 190 and the subway. Moreover, just taking a short bus ride to Ellesmere and then boarding 95E to Yonge will probably take less than 50 min.

If TTC wants to preserve a usable connection between STC and North York without extending Sheppard subway, they should either build a spur of light rail to STC via Brimley or McCowan; or retain bus 190 and run it in the LRT ROW on Sheppard; or retain bus 190 but re-route it via Ellesmere.
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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I certainly don't wish that. This is my community you're talking about. I'll fight for something better. But if that fight doesn't pan out, I'll take second best.

I am not too worried though about how all this is going to pan out. Once that LRT comes in, and lo and behold ridership hasn't gone up significantly over the existing bus routes that are there, LRT will be exposed for the expensive compromise that it is and hopefully we'll get a proper debate on Transit City and the future of transit in this city.

I also can't wait for all the average citizens to start bitching about the transfer at Don Mills. "So I am transferring from one train to another one?" In a few years time, if the LRT is successful, Scarborough councillors will face the same kind of resident anger over the transfer at Don Mills as they had a few years ago over the RT. And this is if everything works. If the reliability of this LRT is anything less than people expect, Scarberians will just label it another SRT and grill every politician who was involved.

The next few years are going to be fun....

I don't agree with you. I don't wish for second-best. Because as sixrings said, people have been complaining about the SRT for years and the result? Let's get rid of it and replace it with LRT. Oh congratulations. Good job. I think it's clear Toronto is a logic-deprived Transit City.
 

acetradamus

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Remove a bunch of stops... only leave major intersections/connections to other bus routes and run an infrequent bus in traffic(15/20min). Speeds up LRT while keeping the local bus stops that our old, fat, lazy, immobile population desperately need... ala Sheppard Subway + 85 Don Mills to Yonge

Current configuration offers negligible travel time savings because there are too many stops, but also makes transit stops further away for a lot of people without offering the benefit of a quicker trip.
 

kEiThZ

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^ Right. So that 80 year old Chinese man who's pushing his cart full of groceries counts as "old, fat, lazy, immobile"?

We have an aging population, who will find it challenging to deal with 400m stop spacing...particularly in the winter. And seniors deserve sympathy not scorn.
 

LAz

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Remove a bunch of stops... only leave major intersections/connections to other bus routes and run an infrequent bus in traffic(15/20min). Speeds up LRT while keeping the local bus stops that our old, fat, lazy, immobile population desperately need... ala Sheppard Subway + 85 Don Mills to Yonge

Current configuration offers negligible travel time savings because there are too many stops, but also makes transit stops further away for a lot of people without offering the benefit of a quicker trip.

While contemplating of how to fix a broken stupid idea, why has extending the Metro a bit not dawned on you?
 

kEiThZ

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Wait, how can you be for a subway but also believe that the LRT stops are too far apart? Subway stops will be crazy far apart on any extension.

Because subways often come with parallel bus service with narrow stop spacing. With Transit City there's no choice. You have to walk hundreds of metres and that's it. Are they even planning a parallel bus service in the core of Eglinton with 800m stop spacing?
 

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