Toronto Yonge City Square Residences | 117.09m | 32s | Gupta | Arcadis

You never cease to amaze me sunnyray, such doom and gloom from a local North York guy:confused:

Not doom and gloom,.... it's reality.

At this site developer know large format office will fail since office building at northeast corner of Yonge/YorkMills-Wilson has that large office space format and has been sitting half empty for decades. So they wanted to try the new office-condo format,.... sure there will be small time sucker investors thinking it's another way to diversify from residential-condo investment,.... but they won't be able to find renters for office-condo because there's really no market for it,... thus, if they go with office-condo, expect 80% of the office condo to remain empty since that's what's happening at Tridel's HullmarkCentre's office-condo (12 storey + 3 in podium; just a couple km away) which opened almost a year ago,..... doom and gloom? Dude, I walk by that place everyday and rarely see any office people walk in and out of that office building,.... if you're ever in the area, just check out the electronic directory,.... it won't take long, about 10-15 names listed for office building that has over a hundred office-condo.
 
If it's as bad as you say no one will buy the units and the building won't be built.

If Tridel had the choice, they would NOT have built any office component into HullmarkCentre. City made them build office component based on its location, their height, density, zoning changes, etc,.... instead of large format office space, Tridel opted to build office-condos that are easier to sell to sucker investors thinking they can rent them out like residential-condos. Office-condo took longer to sell than residential-condo but developer were able to sell them,..... just that those sucker investors that brought them can't find renters for them and thus it's 80% empty,...

The original project for this site was supposed to be an all large format office component for TTC head office,.... but now new developer wants to build office-condos instead of large format office (no market for either at this location,.... but there will be sucker investors who will buy into office-"condo" from developer - just that they won't be able to rent them out later and thus, end up with basically empty office-condo building!),.... and squeeze in commercial-residential (hotel) at rear,... if the developer is smart, they build the office-condo in such a way that they can be easily converted to hotel rooms later on,....
 
Well, if the developer can find buyers, who will have the same abundance of knowledge that you do, more power to them.
 
The retail in Emerald Park will fill up. The neighbourhood is growing, it will take time to fill in. It's all about the price. The 2nd floor grocery store is supposed to be an Adonis, the Lebanese -Canadian chain owned by Metro in Quebec.

The area needs better transit connections. If we had a fully build Sheppard line and Yonge line extended north, plus better traffic circulation, the area would be more attractive to businesses. Right now the traffic on Yonge between Sheppard and 401 is brutal. It's fully the fault of the city for not building the ring road as far south as needed. Beecroft needs to be extended 2 more blocks south to Florence/Avondale. Doris needs to go south to Avondale. City has been dragging it's feet. Also there are plans for a fly-over ramp from Yonge S to 401 E, but even that will take another 5-7 years to build. Expropriate the land and finish the road network.
 
The retail in Emerald Park will fill up. The neighbourhood is growing, it will take time to fill in. It's all about the price. The 2nd floor grocery store is supposed to be an Adonis, the Lebanese -Canadian chain owned by Metro in Quebec.

The area needs better transit connections. If we had a fully build Sheppard line and Yonge line extended north, plus better traffic circulation, the area would be more attractive to businesses. Right now the traffic on Yonge between Sheppard and 401 is brutal. It's fully the fault of the city for not building the ring road as far south as needed. Beecroft needs to be extended 2 more blocks south to Florence/Avondale. Doris needs to go south to Avondale. City has been dragging it's feet. Also there are plans for a fly-over ramp from Yonge S to 401 E, but even that will take another 5-7 years to build. Expropriate the land and finish the road network.

Lead82, the information you post is out of date,....

In 2008, all first floor PacificMall type retail space at EmeraldPark sold out to Chinese mom&pop stores and investors when Loblaw's T&T signed up to be anchor tenant on 2nd floor (this would have been a little Chinatown mall for 3rd largest demographic in NYCC); developer promised delivery date in 2011,.... then 2013,... when that didn't happen, Loblaws T&T bailed. Metro came in and developer promised 2015 delivery date (now weird with Metro as anchor and Chinese PacificMall retail on first floor,.. but whatever!). Fall 2014 WholeFoodsMarket open across Yonge Street at HullmarkCentre and Metro saw that it's basically dead business,.... so dividing half of dead business is still half of dead business,... so Metro wants to bail but can't if developer delivers in 2015 (which seems doable), thus Metro tried unloading it onto their Adonis subsiduary since there's a large Persian demographic locally,... but Adonis don't like location, construction and have already rejected it! Hmmm,... Loblaw's T&T bailed in 2013, Metro bailing, Metro's Adonis rejected it in 2015,.... that's already strike 3! Since it seems developer can finally deliver on time - this time (4 years after original promise date!), Metro is stuck with contract so Metro will either pay penalty and bail or rent it out,.... but that will take time to figure out what will eventually go into that anchor tenant 2nd floor supermarket space,.... in the meantime all those Chinese mom&pop stores and retail investor for first floor PacificMall type retail space (released Sept 2015) are left holding the bag since NOBODY will rent their store or open a store there until they know who the anchor tenant will be! Even though the mall is basically ready for stores now! (Heck LCBO store been ready without stock since last spring),.... I can't see this mall filling up in 2016,.... I'd be surprise if anything actually opens,... in the meantime there will be years of people walking/driving by an entirely empty retail mall,....

And as you say,.... it's all about the price,.... yeah, it'll take a while for those PacificMall type stores to go down in rental price,.... until they're low enough to attract the flea-market type businesses.

Look at Yonge&Eglinton area where most of their office were built from 1950's when Yonge subway opened and ended at Eglinton to mid-1970's when Yonge line was extended north - that's the window of opportunity to build office towers in an area on subway line. From mid-1970's (when Yonge subway opened north of Eglinton to Finch) to mid-1990's when office market collapse,... that's when office towers were being built along Yonge from 401 to Finch,.... Thus, the time is NOW to build office towers in North York City Centre,.... once subway gets extended north of Finch,... offices will be built north of at Steeles, Hwy 7, etc,.... and North York City Centre area won't get any more office towers just like Yonge&Eglinton didn't get any more office towers after the Yonge line extended north in the mid-1970s.

Doris is in the process of being extended south to Avondale. Beecroft will NOT be extended any further south from Poyntz; 20 years ago there was talk of extending Beecroft south to Franklin right at the doorstep of Highway 401 but local residents rejected that so Beecroft only goes down as far as Poyntz,... which now lines up with Annedale Drive extension using land from the HullmarkCentre development.

The $50 million southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 flyover ramp will never be built! There are much better cost effective options but the bottom line is after years of studies by city, MTO and their consultants,.... problem is the MTO will NOT participate in anything that will bring more traffic onto THEIR Highway 401,.... and all the solutions to far requires MTO participation since those solutions requires MTO land,.... and as property-owner MTO (not city) calls the shots!
http://files.ctctcdn.com/41699a17201/2843485b-e148-4f65-aa3f-3ca6fedf986e.pdf
 
Last edited:
Lead82, the information you post is out of date,....

In 2008, all first floor PacificMall type retail space at EmeraldPark sold out to Chinese mom&pop stores and investors when Loblaw's T&T signed up to be anchor tenant on 2nd floor (this would have been a little Chinatown mall for 3rd largest demographic in NYCC); developer promised delivery date in 2011,.... then 2013,... when that didn't happen, Loblaws T&T bailed. Metro came in and developer promised 2015 delivery date (now weird with Metro as anchor and Chinese PacificMall retail on first floor,.. but whatever!). Fall 2014 WholeFoodsMarket open across Yonge Street at HullmarkCentre and Metro saw that it's basically dead business,.... so dividing half of dead business is still half of dead business,... so Metro wants to bail but can't if developer delivers in 2015 (which seems doable), thus Metro tried unloading it onto their Adonis subsiduary since there's a large Persian demographic locally,... but Adonis don't like location, construction and have already rejected it! Hmmm,... Loblaw's T&T bailed in 2013, Metro bailing, Metro's Adonis rejected it in 2015,.... that's already strike 3! Since it seems developer can finally deliver on time - this time (4 years after original promise date!), Metro is stuck with contract so Metro will either pay penalty and bail or rent it out,.... but that will take time to figure out what will eventually go into that anchor tenant 2nd floor supermarket space,.... in the meantime all those Chinese mom&pop stores and retail investor for first floor PacificMall type retail space (released Sept 2015) are left holding the bag since NOBODY will rent their store or open a store there until they know who the anchor tenant will be! Even though the mall is basically ready for stores now! (Heck LCBO store been ready without stock since last spring),.... I can't see this mall filling up in 2016,.... I'd be surprise if anything actually opens,... in the meantime there will be years of people walking/driving by an entirely empty retail mall,....

And as you say,.... it's all about the price,.... yeah, it'll take a while for those PacificMall type stores to go down in rental price,.... until they're low enough to attract the flea-market type businesses.

Look at Yonge&Eglinton area where most of their office were built from 1950's when Yonge subway opened and ended at Eglinton to mid-1970's when Yonge line was extended north - that's the window of opportunity to build office towers in an area on subway line. From mid-1970's (when Yonge subway opened north of Eglinton to Finch) to mid-1990's when office market collapse,... that's when office towers were being built along Yonge from 401 to Finch,.... Thus, the time is NOW to build office towers in North York City Centre,.... once subway gets extended north of Finch,... offices will be built north of at Steeles, Hwy 7, etc,.... and North York City Centre area won't get any more office towers just like Yonge&Eglinton didn't get any more office towers after the Yonge line extended north in the mid-1970s.

Doris is in the process of being extended south to Avondale. Beecroft will NOT be extended any further south from Poyntz; 20 years ago there was talk of extending Beecroft south to Franklin right at the doorstep of Highway 401 but local residents rejected that so Beecroft only goes down as far as Poyntz,... which now lines up with Annedale Drive extension using land from the HullmarkCentre development.

The $50 million southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 flyover ramp will never be built! There are much better cost effective options but the bottom line is after years of studies by city, MTO and their consultants,.... problem is the MTO will NOT participate in anything that will bring more traffic onto THEIR Highway 401,.... and all the solutions to far requires MTO participation since those solutions requires MTO land,.... and as property-owner MTO (not city) calls the shots!
http://files.ctctcdn.com/41699a17201/2843485b-e148-4f65-aa3f-3ca6fedf986e.pdf

Sorry for further derailing this thread but I would like to add that the builder has not received approval from the city to transfer ownership over so during the time waiting they are charging us 2.8% a year on our unit price minus deposit. Since the store owners dont have ownership yet selling and renting is slower. There is also a language barrier between the store owner and the renovation approvers and also a language barrier between the store owner and the potential buyer and tenant.

Also the builder has skimped over some things they could get away with like replacing the two multi toilet bathrooms on the first floor with just one unisex toilet room, making the unit floor height lower than the outer floor (you will have to pour cement yourself so customers dont trip coming into the store) and many units are missing square footage.

Just the concrete pouring will cost the tenant thousands. We were also promised steel troweled concrete but the floors are anything but. This makes it harder to stick tiles, laminate, etc on the ground. Some parts of the ground also are uneven so you will have to grind it with power tools.
 
Most days I take the GO bus, but others I get a lift to York Mills. When this is built, is there still going to be a kiss & ride for the TTC?
 
Isn't the kiss'n'ride at the south entrance?

42


The ttc parking lot at this site was never the official kiss-n-ride for YorkMills station but due to easier more convenient traffic flow it was used as such more often then the south entrance at OldYorkMills Road.

As a result of the community consultations for the original TTC head office development at this site (yes, with some of the same ratepayers groups that have been labeled as NIMBY types by some on the 4155 Yonge thread); it was acknowledged that this site was also used as a convenient drop-off pick-up area as well and since the local community will lose that feature from this site (unless they start using the hotel entrance near the rear off Wilson as their drop-off pick-up area) it was determined that part of the $1.5 million Section 37 Community Benefit from this site goes towards expansion and improvements at the official TTC drop-off pick-up area along OldYorkMills Road at the YorkMills station south TTC entrance.

The rest of the Section 37 Community Benefit money will go towards multi-use trail improvements in the area, Don Valley river erosion work directly west of this site, and park improvements for about 4 or 5 parks in Ward 16 and 25 (this site is technically in Ward 16 but on the border and both ward councillors agreed to share some of the Section 37 community benefit funds - technically section 37 community benefit funds can ONLY be spent in the ward where the development occured). Interestingly, the parkland improvement went to 3 parks in the Bedford Park area (Lawrence - AvenueRd),.... about 3km away from this development site,... in then ward 16 councilor Karen Stintz's neighbourhood,.... that deal really "Stintz"!!!

At the community consultation for the current development proposal (which happened after the last municipal election where Ward 16 elected a new councilor), I tried to get some of the Section 37 community benefit funding dedicated for parkland improvements for the Bedford Park area redirected back to this local area. But city planning didn't want to re-open the Section 37 Community Benefit agreement since any alterations would have to go back to North York Community Council for approval; City Planning just wanted to reuse the original Section 37 Community Benefit agreement from the TTC head office development proposal,... lazy civil servants, shocking, eh! Its a shame because since that first agreement, a large segment of the city Green P parking lot just south of the YorkMills station south entrance (behind Jolly Miller Tavern) was converted to a new park,.... Section 37 Community Benefit definitely could have helped this local park get more infrastructure like playground equipment and multi-use trail improvements, etc,... and it actually would have benefited the local community here and the users, workers, guests and shoppers of this new office, hotel, retail development as well since that new park is only 300m from this site,.... instead that Section 37 community benefit money goes 3km away to the former councilor's neighbourhood. Section 37 Community Benefit funds are supposed to benefit the local community where the development occurs,... NOT the councillor's neighbourhood. When I brought this up at the community consultation meeting,... even Steve Gupta thanked me for bringing this to his attention.
 
Marketing-wise, they're now calling this project "Yonge Park Plaza"
http://yongeparkplaza.ca/

Yes, that's a Hilton in back,... not Marriott which is also another hotel chain affiliated with Gupta/Easton group portfolio of hotels.

They're sending out brochures to surrounding neighbourhoods advertising "Canada's Premiere Office Condominium At Yonge & York Mills",... I don't really understand why, since the vast majority of their office condo buyers will not be locals,... and will leave them empty, a-la the 80% empty office condo of HullmarkCentre and EmeraldPark! So let's see,.... we originally "had" development application for TTC head office here of similar size building full of all corporate type office space,..... that got killed mainly due to politics - TTC head office continues to be spread over 7 sites with some of them literally falling apart with serious mold issues,.... BuildToronto comes in and sell this site for $25million to Gupta/Easton Group who will convert about half of the original proposed office space space into hotel space,... and leave the other half for "office condo",.... which for various reasons will be all sold out but 80% of which will remain empty,.... thus, we'll really only get about 10% of the originally proposed TTC office space!

Anyways,.... here's some images from their marketing brochures,... loading sideways and upside-down:

IMG_6363.JPG

IMG_6368.JPG

IMG_6370.JPG
IMG_6373.JPG

Bottom one is most interesting,... roof-top bar & lounge
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6363.JPG
    IMG_6363.JPG
    929.6 KB · Views: 736
  • IMG_6368.JPG
    IMG_6368.JPG
    1.4 MB · Views: 769
  • IMG_6370.JPG
    IMG_6370.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 764
  • IMG_6373.JPG
    IMG_6373.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 785
What a dull building (like everything Gupta is behind).

What were the political reasons that killed the TTC's intention of moving here?
 

Back
Top