Richmond Hill Yonge North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Ah, my favourite UrbanToronto line of argument. Someone questions some commonly accepted line of thinking, such as light metro being the unquestionably best tech for the OL, that we need to build expensive subways everywhere, or that automation everywhere is an unquestionable benefit for our civilization, and rather than meaningfully engaging with the discussion, the person is called irrational, behind the times, etc. I certainly don't think there is any shame in being hesitant to unquestionably accept a new technology (or at least there shouldn't be) just because our overlords, who as we all know from careful reading of history are a generous and kind demographic of people who always have our best interests and well being at heart, foisted it upon us and assured us it's safe.
I agree that this kind of response is silly, that being said you haven't given many reasonable arguments to work off of. Even in this paragraph, it is filled with so many strawmen points - its amazing to hear you still think that "We need to build expensive subways everywhere" is something people on here argue for. I agree we should be hesitant to accept new technology because of our overlords, but there is a massive difference between new Gadgetbahns like Hyperloops, O-Bahns, and trackless trams, versus Automated Metros that have existed in some form for over half a century, and have more than proven themselves.
If wanting someone trained in evacuation procedures, emergency evacuations, and who can contact the authorities clearly and accurately on my trains is irrational or paranoid, then wearing seatbelts, locking your house at night, keeping computer backups, looking both ways before crossing the street, wearing hi-vis clothing in the dark, having a first aid kit, wearing a helmet while biking, having Two Factor Authentication, or having emergency contacts must also be irrational and paranoid. I have found in my life that I have not really needed to do any of these things up until this point, but I still do them, because it only takes one misadventure for the decision to do these things to pay off.
Let me frame it another way. How much money does it cost to pay such a person to be on a train? 30-40 dollars per hour? If we have trains running every 90s, that's an insane amount of money that could be spent on hiring more bus operators to provide supplemental feeder services, and its money being wasted to prevent something that might happen once every 30-40 years. So to compare it to wearing a helmet, hi-vis clothing, or using 2 factor authentication is utterly insane.
I want someone to answer these questions clearly and concisely: if there is no employee on board the train, how does an automated metro conduct an evacuation in the event of a derailment or fire? How does the general public know where to go, or how to avoid debris on the track bed? What about if police or paramedic intervention is required? In a dark tunnel, everything looks the same and no one knows where they are (or even what happened). How does anyone know where they are or how to get help? And no, meaningless platitudes about how the metro systems are safe don't mean a thing. Everything is safe, until it's suddenly not. Of course, the wikipedia article on automatic train operation doesn't mention anything about safety.
1) If train systems are still active, an employee is able to take control of the train remotely and move it back directly towards an emergency exit/ladder.
2) If not, there is almost always going to be a station attendant at the next nearby station who might be able to run over, not to mention the fire department that I think always has to be at least 5m away, and get training on how to perform rescue operations from subways.
 
Problem is not the highway safety but driving behaviour.
Many of the suburban streets are designed for the "safety" of speeders, not for the safety of pedestrians. So we get speeders whizzing over the posted speed limits, because they can.
 
Many of the suburban streets are designed for the "safety" of speeders, not for the safety of pedestrians. So we get speeders whizzing over the posted speed limits, because they can.
I’ve never seen anyone whizzing over the posted speed limits…

…the signs are too tall for that. ;)
 
If wanting someone trained in evacuation procedures, emergency evacuations, and who can contact the authorities clearly and accurately on my trains is irrational or paranoid, then wearing seatbelts, locking your house at night, keeping computer backups, looking both ways before crossing the street, wearing hi-vis clothing in the dark, having a first aid kit, wearing a helmet while biking, having Two Factor Authentication, or having emergency contacts must also be irrational and paranoid. I have found in my life that I have not really needed to do any of these things up until this point, but I still do them, because it only takes one misadventure for the decision to do these things to pay off.

You can't buy insurance after you need it. I'm in favor of driverless trains, but I am not in favor of crewless trains.
 
You can't buy insurance after you need it. I'm in favor of driverless trains, but I am not in favor of crewless trains.
In a world where trade-offs have to be made, would you prefer a SkyTrain style service that is crewless and runs with 2 min frequency or crewed that runs with 6 min frequency?

I'm sure some people disapproved the removal of elevator operators.
 
In a world where trade-offs have to be made, would you prefer a SkyTrain style service that is crewless and runs with 2 min frequency or crewed that runs with 6 min frequency?

I'm sure some people disapproved the removal of elevator operators.

It depends on the length of the trains and the distance between stations (or swap that for travel time between stations), and the availability of customer service personal at those stations. For short trains with frequent stops at staffed stations (even if just a lone, safety-trained security guard), sure, remove the crew, but otherwise...

That said, there's no one blanket rule that fits every situation. Hopefully a trained and knowledgeable staff designs the system, and in a manner that's well informed by sufficient public consultation.
 
Spoke with a prominent Vaughan councillor today. She says the Steeles BRT is moving along, but not in a rush.

Also said there's an idea floating around to add elevated pedestrian crossings over Yonge and Steeles which would integrate with the subway station and planned development around the intersection.
 
Wouldn't an underground pedestrian crossing be better? There will be entrances to subway station already and those could be used for crossing the road too.
They are refusing to put underground pedestrian crossings on the Crosstown West LRT at Kipling, Islington, and Martin Grove. There is no underground pedestrian crossing at Humber College on the Finch West LRT to cross Highway 27 to get to Etobicoke General Hospital (saying a "third party" could do it, and we're still waiting, and waiting, and waiting).

Expected by automobile addicted politicians and bureaucrats.
 
I bet you dollars to donuts if they did elevated or underground pedestrian crossings, urbanists like you Walter would complain that those crossings detract from sidewalk vitality/pedestrian/retail vitality or whatever. Do you just complain for the sake of complaining?

Personally, I doubt there will be any elevated or underground crossings because they will add cost and require coordination with surrounding property owners.
Wouldn't an underground pedestrian crossing be better? There will be entrances to subway station already and those could be used for crossing the road too.
Agreed.
 
Everyone feel sorry for Toronto city council. How could they possibly budget. Out of 35 cities in Ontario they have the lowest tax rate of all of them and the 4th from lowest tax. Toronto needs a bailout. Come on Windsor, pay more provincial and and federal tax so that the upper levels of government can bail Toronto out. Everyone knows Windsor is where people are driving around in BMWs and Mercedes while Torontonians drive around in rust buckets.

CityAvg HomeHome RankTax RateTax Rate RankTaxTax Rank
Caledon$1,709,97510.80%24$13,6801
Windsor$714,650221.81%1$12,9352
Whitby$991,105121.12%17$11,1003
Oakville$1,487,48520.72%30$10,7104
Pickering$981,563141.08%21$10,6015
Ajax$968,767151.09%19$10,5606
Orangeville$783,615181.33%10$10,4227
Aurora$1,363,41230.76%29$10,3628
Oshawa$782,227201.30%11$10,1699
Peterborough$693,871261.44%6$9,99210
Brampton$1,003,263110.96%23$9,63111
Hamilton$782,611191.20%14$9,39112
Guelph$810,200171.14%16$9,23613
Newmarket$1,124,97470.79%26$8,88714
Barrie$729,500211.21%13$8,82715
London$630,282291.38%8$8,69816
Kingston$636,150281.36%9$8,65217
Richmond Hill$1,317,24740.65%33$8,56217
Cambridge$714,650221.18%15$8,43319
St. Catharines$582,100311.44%6$8,38220
Niagara Falls$640,000271.30%11$8,32021
Vaughan$1,251,46560.66%32$8,26022
Burlington$1,060,05290.77%28$8,16223
Markham$1,282,56150.63%34$8,08024
Mississauga$987,356130.80%24$7,89925
Kitchener$714,650221.10%18$7,86126
Waterloo$714,650221.09%19$7,79027
Halton Hills$966,031160.79%26$7,63228
Milton$1,031,770100.68%31$7,01629
Sudbury$436,000321.54%5$6,71430
Toronto$1,093,09780.61%35$6,66831
North Bay$400,593331.56%4$6,24932
Ottawa$624,003301.00%22$6,24033
Thunder Bay$309,310341.59%2$4,91834
Sault Ste. Marie$296,629351.58%3$4,68735
 
Everyone feel sorry for Toronto city council. How could they possibly budget. Out of 35 cities in Ontario they have the lowest tax rate of all of them and the 4th from lowest tax. Toronto needs a bailout. Come on Windsor, pay more provincial and and federal tax so that the upper levels of government can bail Toronto out. Everyone knows Windsor is where people are driving around in BMWs and Mercedes while Torontonians drive around in rust buckets.

CityAvg HomeHome RankTax RateTax Rate RankTaxTax Rank
Caledon$1,709,97510.80%24$13,6801
Windsor$714,650221.81%1$12,9352
Whitby$991,105121.12%17$11,1003
Oakville$1,487,48520.72%30$10,7104
Pickering$981,563141.08%21$10,6015
Ajax$968,767151.09%19$10,5606
Orangeville$783,615181.33%10$10,4227
Aurora$1,363,41230.76%29$10,3628
Oshawa$782,227201.30%11$10,1699
Peterborough$693,871261.44%6$9,99210
Brampton$1,003,263110.96%23$9,63111
Hamilton$782,611191.20%14$9,39112
Guelph$810,200171.14%16$9,23613
Newmarket$1,124,97470.79%26$8,88714
Barrie$729,500211.21%13$8,82715
London$630,282291.38%8$8,69816
Kingston$636,150281.36%9$8,65217
Richmond Hill$1,317,24740.65%33$8,56217
Cambridge$714,650221.18%15$8,43319
St. Catharines$582,100311.44%6$8,38220
Niagara Falls$640,000271.30%11$8,32021
Vaughan$1,251,46560.66%32$8,26022
Burlington$1,060,05290.77%28$8,16223
Markham$1,282,56150.63%34$8,08024
Mississauga$987,356130.80%24$7,89925
Kitchener$714,650221.10%18$7,86126
Waterloo$714,650221.09%19$7,79027
Halton Hills$966,031160.79%26$7,63228
Milton$1,031,770100.68%31$7,01629
Sudbury$436,000321.54%5$6,71430
Toronto$1,093,09780.61%35$6,66831
North Bay$400,593331.56%4$6,24932
Ottawa$624,003301.00%22$6,24033
Thunder Bay$309,310341.59%2$4,91834
Sault Ste. Marie$296,629351.58%3$4,68735
thats a completely separate topic but this is very intentionally misleading.
Ive seen this repeated and its kinda annoying actually
theres a massive difference when your population is 6 million vs 170,000 (Oshawa)
you cant just take the average house price. As we know on urbantoronto 1 single building has 400 units...with all of them paying the same amount of property tax.

thats the equivalent of like 200 detached homes in Oshawa.

Yes Toronto has a budget crisis but nothing that cant be solved by a very small tax increase. which will end up being like 10% of 0.61% or effectively 7300. still at 30th place

I will also mention as you might know Toronto has the Gardiner and DVP to maintain for the people of the GTA who dont pay taxes to Toronto to pay for it.
 

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