Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

rbt

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The "problem" is that they seem to have this idyllic vision of riding the GO, where people can take the time to tap wherever they want. That maybe true for off-peak periods or other stations - Union isn't that duck - good luck if your train is leaving in a few minutes and you have to find a clear Presto terminal - and there is a zillion people in front of you (some of whom will insist that that tapping multiple times will turn a red into a green; or that it will read their card buried in the inner sanctum of their MK on the 11th try). They will however let us know they have customer service ambassadors and that stupidly grating AI announcement though.

Amsterdam has by far the best «I'm in a hurry» process at Centraal. They ring the entire area with fare-gates with the tap pads functional but the doors removed. Anybody can enter or leave; but those tapping will find it both very easy to do and it's very clear that you should be doing so (impossible to forget).
 
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AlvinofDiaspar

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Amsterdam has by far the best «I'm in a hurry» process at Centraal. They ring the entire area with fare-gates with the tap pads but with doors removed. Anybody can enter or leave; but those tapping will find it both very easy to do and it's very clear that you should be doing so (impossible to forget).

Always count on the Europeans - particularly the Dutch to come up with these practical schemes. You have to wonder what's so rocket science about it that they can't do it it here (cheapness?) It's not even that hard given the number of access points to the concourse and teamways.

AoD
 

junctionist

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Always count on the Europeans - particularly the Dutch to come up with these practical schemes. You have to wonder what's so rocket science about it that they can't do it it here (cheapness?) It's not even that hard given the number of access points to the concourse and teamways.

AoD

Perhaps fewer people who design and oversee these systems here actually use them. When you use something everyday, you're more likely to have a better grasp at the flaws and possibilities for improvements of a system. When you don't, your perspective as to what's practical and possible is more limited.
 

Allandale25

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littlewill1166

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It's such a waste of taxpayer money, the city is literally fining itself. The only winners are the lawyers. The city should just plead guilty, pay itself the fine and move on instead of wasting court time and legal fees.
 

fc000

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Amsterdam has by far the best «I'm in a hurry» process at Centraal. They ring the entire area with fare-gates with the tap pads but with doors removed. Anybody can enter or leave; but those tapping will find it both very easy to do and it's very clear that you should be doing so (impossible to forget).

I was just thinking this while reading through about the teamway readers. Union station should be setup the same way.

I never understood the placement of presto scanners "off to the side" of doorways?! Why aren't they lined up along the width of entrances/exists? Just have people tap the second they enter and exit the concourses and teamways instead of having them next to the platform staircases. This way you get a clean flow of people coming through all doors instead of bunching at the sides.

This is especially a shit show at the Union UP station with only TWO readers on the far sides of the station entrance. It's comical watching people surround the readers as a train disembarks, especially when half the passengers have roller luggage.
 

BjamesT

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The same happens in the York Concourse, the Presto machines closest to where the crowd comes from the subway have line-ups to tap while the ones further down in the middle are much less busy.
Which is annoying for me as my train is on track 4. Waiting behind people tapping for trains on 13+...
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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I was just thinking this while reading through about the teamway readers. Union station should be setup the same way.

I never understood the placement of presto scanners "off to the side" of doorways?! Why aren't they lined up along the width of entrances/exists? Just have people tap the second they enter and exit the concourses and teamways instead of having them next to the platform staircases. This way you get a clean flow of people coming through all doors instead of bunching at the sides.

This is especially a shit show at the Union UP station with only TWO readers on the far sides of the station entrance. It's comical watching people surround the readers as a train disembarks, especially when half the passengers have roller luggage.

My only sense is that Metrolinx/GO is desperate to keep the number of Presto readers at Union down due to cost (or whatever) - that's the only rationale explanation I can imagine.

AoD
 

penlasdle

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My only sense is that Metrolinx/GO is desperate to keep the number of Presto readers at Union down due to cost (or whatever) - that's the only rationale explanation I can imagine.

AoD

More reason for them to place them in the most effective places! I couldn't agree with junctionist more, the people who plan our public services are not themselves users. They just look down from above and space things out in a neat little map and call it a day.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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More reason for them to place them in the most effective places! I couldn't agree with junctionist more, the people who plan our public services are not themselves users. They just look down from above and space things out in a neat little map and call it a day.

They don't have to be users - they just have to observe and think and anticipate like users. I mean, that's what they are paid the big bucks for, no?

AoD
 

Mercenary

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They don't have to be users - they just have to observe and think and anticipate like users. I mean, that's what they are paid the big bucks for, no?

AoD

There is a lot of advanced software available which simulates crowds and how they would operate in a given space. This is really helpful in designing public spaces to have optimal flow of people.
I am really surprised that they didn't even consider this and just aesthetically placed presto readers evenly.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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There is a lot of advanced software available which simulates crowds and how they would operate in a given space. This is really helpful in designing public spaces to have optimal flow of people.
I am really surprised that they didn't even consider this and just aesthetically placed presto readers evenly.

Arup handled the in-station foot traffic simulation for the project if I remembered correctly. Whether Presto terminal placement takes that into consideration is a big unknown.

Edit - yes it was Arup:

AoD
 

PeterB

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Years ago, I used the centre ramp from the VIA Concourse to exit Union Station every morning. One day, signs went up on both sides of the ramp warning that the washrooms on that level were going to close for construction. It was exciting because I think it was the first real indication that the long wait was over, and the renovation of Union Station was finally beginning.

The closure date on those signs was January 10, 2010. I remember it because the date was 01-10-10. Overall construction was to take 3-5 years and we thought wow, that’s a long time! Adorable, right? The Bay concourse closed right after the Pan Am games in July 2015 and was to take two years to finish. Again, adorable. So far, this project is more than five years behind schedule.

Yes, I know, completing such a huge project without closing the station was a giant undertaking and surprises arise as you dig down. Yes, I know, the completed sections of the station are wonderful. Judging by what’s already finished, they’re doing a great job. Yes, it’s going to be amazing when they’re done, and we will have a future-ready station to make the city proud.

It’s just that, today, 01-10-20, is exactly ten years after those washrooms closed and I didn’t want the day to go by unnoticed. I have a nephew in grade 4 who is younger than the Union Station renovation. Maybe they should roll a big birthday cake out into the Great Hall and invite the project management group to come down and blow out the ten candles.

As we enter the second decade of this project let's remind ourselves that good t
 

PeterB

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As we enter the second decade of this project let's try to remember that good things come to those that ......................wait.

(Ironically I must have maxed out the post size and had to ... wait to finish the post! - I'm clearly a noob at this)
 

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