Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

The last three I've watched go by, north and south, (Up and Down) (it's now 10:10AM) have been MP40 10 car sets. Perhaps today's service disruption has delayed changing in the shorter consists, I'll keep watching.

At 10.10am, depending on where your office is and provided that service is operating as normal, you should have seen all three of the trainsets - 268, leaving Mount Pleasant at 9am, and 269 and 271, leaving Union at 8.55am and 9.48am.

If they have decided to run shorter consists, which makes eminent sense, that flies in the face of others in these forums dissing the suggested idea some months back. It not only saves needless wear and tear, it saves fuel and uses the second lifetime of the refurbished F59s. I'll keep watching out my 18th floor window while working to see what shows later.

Cost savings is not what is purpose of this, and frankly the cost savings aren't huge in any case. The main driver is to try and get as many trains on the road, and by doing this they've been able to build two trains from one (with the addition of 2 more cab cars - which are currently plentiful).

Anyone have a link for this?

Nope.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
At 10.10am, depending on where your office is and provided that service is operating as normal, you should have seen all three of the trainsets
Service was severely disrupted this morning due to a death on the tracks east of Weston.

The 6 car F-59 sets are running now. So if this is to "try and get as many trains on the road", then where are the MP-40 10 car consists assigned to during the day? And what about peak? If these are the trainsets from the peak Barrie run, and being used off peak on the Mt Pleasant run, then how does that release more trainsets save for possibly servicing during the day?
 
Last edited:
The 6 car F-59 sets are running now. So if this is to "try and get as many trains on the road", then where are the MP-40 10 car consists assigned to during the day? And what about peak? If these are the trainsets from the peak Barrie run, and being used off peak on the Mt Pleasant run, then how does that release more trainsets save for possibly servicing during the day?

They aren't necessarily or inherently F59 sets - an MP40 can just as easily be used for them, just as there is nothing preventing GO from using an F59 on a regularly-scheduled L10.

It doesn't necessary release more trains - what it does is allow GO to operate 2 trains from the equipment of one. Right now, the limiting factor for GO's operations from the equipment side is the number of coaches, or lack thereof. For instance, one of the new 6-car trains is the first train down from Lincolnville in the morning (and conversely, the last up in the evening). This allows 4 coaches to be used elsewhere in the system (considering that as a base each train must consist of at least one accessible car and one cab car), seeing as how this trainset was originally a 10-car train. Another 6-car trainset is now operating on the Richmond Hill line - in theory, this could have been made with those coaches freed up from the Lincolnville train.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
But the logic is still wanting. What happens during peak time as opposed to daytime schedule? If you add the six car trains during peak, you have gained more availabe runs. But they're not run during peak on this line. So where are the ten car consists during the day? They're lying idle, other than ostensibly those in for servicing.

Since full 10 car trains are being run during peak on this line, then where is the gain realized by running 6 car trains during the day when there isn't a shortage of stock?
 
Last edited:
UPX is not a "complete design failure"...much of the engineering is usable in other ways, it's an *implementation* failure. And some of that has now been corrected as best it can without further re-implementation. To do anything more with the present rolling stock is nigh impossible. And to add more is not an option either. We've got to stop looking at this as a "failure" and look forward to recovering what we can, without losing the original purpose, and making it part of something much bigger and better. The airport function remains a very valid and vital piece. The way it was done was a fiscal failure, obviously, but other than the rolling stock, it's time to move on. And unless MX show some sign soon of putting an emphasis on electrifying Bramalea south to Union, that corridor is stuck languishing. They're going to need to order in EMUs and very soon, delivery time is two years at the shortest, even for 'off-the-shelf' designs.

We get lots of station announcements...but as Paul is fond of saying, and he's very right...even bus-shelters will do just to get the thing started. They can build palaces later. We need some *cogent sign* that service is coming, and station announcements when the financing hasn't even been discussed, let alone appropriated is becoming more bizarre and obtuse every time it happens.


This is well said. I bet I could pour a slab of cement for a 12 car consist that didn't cost $50 million. Why does each station seem to cost this much? A slab of cement is all that is required to get a stop location going.
 
This is well said. I bet I could pour a slab of cement for a 12 car consist that didn't cost $50 million. Why does each station seem to cost this much? A slab of cement is all that is required to get a stop location going.

sure...if there is no need for electronics...stairs, tunnels, accessibility features...but sure, all a station is is a slab of cement.
 
sure...if there is no need for electronics...stairs, tunnels, accessibility features...but sure, all a station is is a slab of cement.

But as others have asked... $50 million. That does all cost something. But $50million per station is quite dear. You get a lot of building for $50 million.
 
sure...if there is no need for electronics...stairs, tunnels, accessibility features...but sure, all a station is is a slab of cement.

You forgot the redundant ticket machines, the wifi networks, the artisanal coffee bars, room for the massive staff complements ...
 
This is well said. I bet I could pour a slab of cement for a 12 car consist that didn't cost $50 million. Why does each station seem to cost this much?

The Barrie line has been tendering some station upgrades recently. A single basic pedestrian tunnel under the tracks is over 10% of the price. I imagine a good chunk of that cost is simply the result of trains running overhead during excavation.
 
The nuance of Bart's statement is lost on some. The stations relevant to his point are the SmartTrack ones, and to get them up and running, in the most basic form, as early GO stations were, should not require the price-tags now being bandied about. The 'pleasant touches' can be added later, when there's perhaps funding available.

Keep in mind, since some of you are so quick to pour water on others' ideas, the City *does not have a fund* to build these! We have an idiot mayor (with some redeeming features) who commits billions to building a one-stop subway to virtually nowhere (both the Globe and Star have published scathing editorials, let alone featured articles on this) and Metrolinx are mandating the City come up with financing in short order for the SmartTrack stations. No-one seems to know from where.

I suggest some of you consider what the options are here. Either minimize the expenditure on stations and other features, or not have SmartTrack as an integrated part of RER.

Take your choice...
 
But the logic is still wanting. What happens during peak time as opposed to daytime schedule? If you add the six car trains during peak, you have gained more availabe runs. But they're not run during peak on this line. So where are the ten car consists during the day? They're lying idle, other than ostensibly those in for servicing.

Since full 10 car trains are being run during peak on this line, then where is the gain realized by running 6 car trains during the day when there isn't a shortage of stock?

Why does it matter where the trainsets are run during the peak? A net gain of a train on the system is still a net gain. Rush hour is the pinch point, not the middle of the day or the evening.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Why does it matter where the trainsets are run during the peak? A net gain of a train on the system is still a net gain. Rush hour is the pinch point, not the middle of the day or the evening.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Because you made the claim that it was because GO is lacking coaches!
what it does is allow GO to operate 2 trains from the equipment of one. Right now, the limiting factor for GO's operations from the equipment side is the number of coaches, or lack thereof.
So how can your stated logic possibly apply to *off peak*?

You dissed the concept of doing it for frugality and not wasting lifetime and fuel on a 10 car set, which would make perfect sense to me, in lieu of running nearly empty trains during off-peak times.

So would you care to state the logic of your claims yet again?

Edit to Add: Here's the fault of your reasoning again:
Rush hour is the pinch point, not the middle of the day or the evening.
And "rush hour" is when the 6 car consists are used on their peak route.
For instance, one of the new 6-car trains is the first train down from Lincolnville in the morning (and conversely, the last up in the evening). This allows 4 coaches to be used elsewhere in the system (considering that as a base each train must consist of at least one accessible car and one cab car), seeing as how this trainset was originally a 10-car train. Another 6-car trainset is now operating on the Richmond Hill line - in theory, this could have been made with those coaches freed up from the Lincolnville train.
So at a time when there is no shortage of coaches, they're used on the Weston corridor. So how can it possibly be down to "lack" of coaches at that time of day? And since you are so well-informed on the matter, are the ten-car consists used for peak on the Weston Corridor sitting idle during off-peak? Or as I stated prior, "in for servicing"? And if so, all of them at the same time?

The only logic I can see (and I agree fully with it) is to use smaller consists already brake-tested and available to relieve the running of the 10 car consists almost empty during off-peak on the Weston Corridor.
 
Last edited:

Top