U of T: Centre for Civilizations, Cultures, and Cities | ?m | 9s | U of T | DS + R

jje1000

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Can't say I like it too much, especially the sheer walls on the side closest to the ROM. It also feels strangely conservative for a DS+R project, compared to some of their earlier output.

Regardless, I was hoping for a less bulky and domineering building- IMO it could have been much more interesting and better suited to the context if they concentrated the height closest to the ROM, and terraced down towards Flavelle House.
 
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ardwold1

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Hmmm...domineering indeed. This really gobbles up the Wood mansion, doesn't it? I quite like the general direction, but it could certainly do with some refinement.
 

greenleaf

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Interesting to compare this to DS+R's proposal in London:


 

.dwg

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Looks like UofT is trying to shoehorn a lot of program onto a tiny and logistically challenging site. I’m not envious of what the design team were tasked with here, but I also can’t say I love the result.
 

UrbanFervour

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I get that a big ol deconstructed mess is still all the rage in architecture... But does U of T have to jam this right in the middle of the ROM, Flavelle House, Trinity College and Falconer Hall? In my opinion (based on my personal taste) the design simply isn't good enough to obliterate the scale of the heritage buildings in and around Queen's Park. I know everyone will swoon for DS+R but the size of this makes it a big thumbs down for me. Interested to see more plans & renderings.
 

Don Mills

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Brother Jonathan

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I get that a big ol deconstructed mess is still all the rage in architecture... But does U of T have to jam this right in the middle of the ROM, Flavelle House, Trinity College and Falconer Hall? In my opinion (based on my personal taste) the design simply isn't good enough to obliterate the scale of the heritage buildings in and around Queen's Park. I know everyone will swoon for DS+R but the size of this makes it a big thumbs down for me. Interested to see more plans & renderings.
Trinity isn't really in the same area. What is there, lurking behind this proposal, is the ugly bunker of a music building. Also the ROM's loading docks, which I guess will now be buried. So, by covering up those two things, I think this proposal drastically improves the architectural character of the immediate area. (Of course, I hate Falconer, so maybe I'm not an unbiased judge of the proposal. )
I get what everyone's saying about scale though.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Couple other renders from the U of T site:

This one gives a much better sense of the appearance/materiality of the north portion; nice look at the plaza, too; love the tiering.

Love this vista -- reminiscent of DSRNY's Boston Institute of Contemporary Art.
Thanks! It does give a much better idea how the building situates itself. The materality looks great in a rendering, but they need to make sure it is top-notch when executed...

In terms of mass - it is a squeeze, but I guess it is less intrusive than one that is perpendicular to the Music building.

AoD
 
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PMT

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78 QUEEN'S PARK
Ward 11 - Tor & E.York District


http://app.toronto.ca/DevelopmentApplications/associatedApplicationsList.do?action=init&folderRsn=4527910&isCofASearch=false&isTlabSearch=false

Zoning By-Law Amendment to permit a 9-storey (43 metre) building on the site. The proposal would permit a gross floor area of up to 15,632.5 square metres for a building comprised of institutional uses and ancillary uses, including a recital hall, a café, meeting rooms, laboratories, work areas, and offices.
 

Student99

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Trinity isn't really in the same area. What is there, lurking behind this proposal, is the ugly bunker of a music building. Also the ROM's loading docks, which I guess will now be buried. So, by covering up those two things, I think this proposal drastically improves the architectural character of the immediate area. (Of course, I hate Falconer, so maybe I'm not an unbiased judge of the proposal. )
I get what everyone's saying about scale though.
Have you been IN the music building? The lobby is beautifully designed with skylights that go through the third floor and up to the roof. IMO this new mess is much much uglier than what's already there. Way too bulky; they're trying to shove something huge in such a small space.

Agreed with another poster: west side of st george, south of harbord would be better locations for all of this mass, if it's really needed. The classroom wing & cafeteria of Sidney Smith Hall could be built up, or the lecture hall wing of Lash Miller, or the lecture hall wing of Ramsay Wright... still lots of options over there so I dont really understand this
 

greenleaf

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Brother Jonathan

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Have you been IN the music building? The lobby is beautifully designed with skylights that go through the third floor and up to the roof. IMO this new mess is much much uglier than what's already there. Way too bulky; they're trying to shove something huge in such a small space.

Agreed with another poster: west side of st george, south of harbord would be better locations for all of this mass, if it's really needed. The classroom wing & cafeteria of Sidney Smith Hall could be built up, or the lecture hall wing of Lash Miller, or the lecture hall wing of Ramsay Wright... still lots of options over there so I dont really understand this
I've been in the lobby within the past decade. A nice space, if not a particularly comfortable one (I recall that--at the time--it could have used some tables for working/ eating). Nice study carrells in the library too (under the skylight) if you could find the library. Doesn't change the fact that from the outside the north half of the building is a windowless box next to a loading dock under an ugly office building. Which is unfortunate, since that's supposed to be a pedestrian connection to the Philosopher's Walk. My hope is that this proposal will improve that pedestrian pathway. (You could, of course, go through the music building instead, but as I recall that's up some stairs and down some more stairs rather than a straight shot.)

As for the mass: on reflection, it looks like it's only two stories taller than the (ugly) ROM office building, so I'm not sure if it will feel as big in person as it looks in some renders. Regardless, I don't consider this particular block worth holding in stasis (but maybe that's just me). My view is that this should (hopefully) be a nice enough building that, rather than not fitting its context, it BECOMES the new context.
 

Brother Jonathan

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UofT got leapfrogged by Ryerson in terms of incorporating itself physically into the city so they are looking to fix it. So, they plan to build up more on the edges like this building and the Teeple one on College.

See strategy here: https://www.utoronto.ca/news/four-corners-u-t-unveils-development-strategy-campus-housing-other-key-services
So if I'm reading this correctly, it looks like the broader university wants to copy Vic's strategy of leveraging its real estate as a profit center.
 

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