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TYSSE: Pioneer Village Station 
Steeles Av W at NW Gate, Toronto
Developer: Toronto Transit Commission

TYSSE: Pioneer Village Station | 12m | 1s | TTC | aLL Design

Discussion in 'Buildings' started by Platform 27, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. Platform 27

    Platform 27 Active Member

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    Ooh, ooh, new TTC agenda package materials! How nonchalant to slide that in, nfitz :)

    Steeles West is the only conceptual design ready for sign-off this month, so that leaves, by my count, Finch West and the two York Region stations as the laggards.

    • Price is up to $145 million, allegedly due to construction cost increases and the inclusion of the green building standard (par for the course on these so far) but also the magical discovery of a high water table. (Guys, you're not digging blind in the Klondike here. There are buildings with incredibly sophisticated
      "basement" technology in the general vicinity. How does something as basic to costing out an underground structure like knowing roughly where the water table sits get missed until now?)

    • Following on from the previous posts, my first question is where the hell did the third track go? It seems to have vanished and we don't even have cost savings to show for it.

    • In delightful overbuild news: 18 bus bays in not one, but two separate terminals--one for YRT north of Steeles and one for the TTC south of Steeles. OK, ok, I get it---one gets to be in the fare-paid zone and one isn't---but, really, TTC planner guys, you have to realize this looks pretty ridiculous, even by your standards. Even assuming every single one of those bus bays is needed, how many million does two structures versus one add to cost, all in the name of bus apartheid? (Perish the thought that a red bus and a blue bus might have to have platforms next to one another.) Indeed, the fact that the overarching design constraint seems to be "TTC stuff goes on the Toronto side of the line and gets a green roof at Toronto's expense, YRT stuff goes on the Vaughan side of the street and doesn't get a green roof unless York wants to pay for one" we have here a pretty sad moment for interjurisdictional cooperation. To add insult to injury, there isn't even enclosed access from the YRT terminal to the station: instead passengers would need to go outside and cross "Street B." I'd also bet that part of whatever twisted rationale someone reached for needing 18 bays is the need for swing space, which we apparently can't stoop to share between agencies.

    • The station has two segregated areas at concourse level, separated by a large space that apparently can, if necessary, be used to fit in an LRT station. The document doesn't mention it, but I'm assuming this would be for the Jane LRT? Considering they'll be excavating out the entire station footprint down to track level, they'd better leave at least a roughed-in hollow concrete box here rather than backfill it with dirt only to tear up the street again 8 years later.

    • Leaving aside the dreadful overbuild, I'm rather fond of the design. Architectural credit is to a partnership between Toronto-based Stevens group (who've done a fair few TTC projects in the past) and Will Alsop, the Brit best known for the OCAD building. I remember back in one of the early interviews after getting the contract Alsop spoke a lot about how he wanted to get natural light deep down into the building and here we see that definitely seems to be the major focus of the design. I really like the idea of a light cone punching all the way down to the platform level, and the sort of space-agey station heads are pretty cool. Poor station has to sit next to some pretty nasty York architecture.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
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  2. khristopher

    khristopher Senior Member

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    What a cool looking station! I'm so glad we're finally getting unique looking stations.
     
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  3. Woodbridge_Heights

    Woodbridge_Heights Senior Member

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    It's overbuilt given it's surrounded by parking. I thought that York U wanted 0 (that's none) bus bays on it's land, I guess it's ok here in the armpit of the university. No on street entrances (On Steeles in particular, or any of the N/S cross streets). The closest we get is the NW entrance but passenger have to loop around to access the entrance doors.

    Will the light corridors have to be protected to prevent development from blocking sunlight from accessing them?

    The treatment of the YRT bus bay is terrible. If this is supposed to be the NW gateway a la Finch they should have worked to better integrate it into the station.
     
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  4. unimaginative2

    unimaginative2 Senior Member

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    The separate bus terminals is a little alarming. Don't they have plans for fare integration at this point? At least on the subway line... Cool design, though. I'm happy with that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2009
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  5. CDL.TO

    CDL.TO Moderator

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    Hopefully no one ever has to change from a TTC bus to a YRT bus at the station.
     
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  6. lead82

    lead82 Senior Member

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    The design looks good but I do agree about having two separate bus terminals, plus having an extra light just for the TTC bus terminal when the Northwest gate is perfectly able to handle the bus traffic.

    I think they can reduce costs and free up some development land by removing the YRT bus terminal and integrating it with the TTC terminal.
     
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  7. Coruscanti Cognoscente

    Coruscanti Cognoscente Senior Member

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    I'm shocked that they're bulding two separate bus terminals for one station. That really is the height of jurisdictional ridiculousness in Toronto. Can we merge all the transit systems once and for all? PLEASE?
     
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  8. EnviroTO

    EnviroTO Senior Member

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    Unfortunately until they get Presto rolled out and eliminate "fare paid zones" for surface routes this will continue. They are building Kipling to be the same way. When Presto is in every TTC bus I suspect Steeles West will look much like Wilson Station with unused bus capacity. It is silly that there would even be enough York Region buses to warrant a terminal. TTC Route 60 has Steeles handled, VIVA Orange, VIVA Purple, YRT 20, and YRT 77A could terminate at Vaughan Centre so a whole bus terminal for YRT 3, YRT 10, and GO?
     
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  9. andrewpmk

    andrewpmk Senior Member

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    The YRT bus terminal is also too far from York University, and I'm sure it will be a long and unpleasant walk in the winter. There's already several York buildings near the southeast corner of North West/Steeles, and chances are more will be built in the future after the subway station is built. It would make sense to consolidate both bus terminals on the southeast corner of the intersection, which would make them more convenient for accessing that part of campus.
     
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  10. Darwinkgo

    Darwinkgo Active Member

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    18 bus bays? I wonder at peak times if they even need half as many if they let different (TTC) routes share (TTC) platforms.
     
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  11. Woodbridge_Heights

    Woodbridge_Heights Senior Member

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    Ahh but you could always hop on the subway for a one stop ride to the middle of York. Fare please.
     
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  12. Rainforest

    Rainforest Senior Member

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    Moreover, GO can use 407 Transitway station - this is the purpose of that station.

    YRT 3 and 10 could be through-routed, and then a YRT terminal is not needed at all. Ideally, those two routes should continue running to York U grounds. Nearly 100% of their passengers at that point head to York, and these buses are so infrequent that they won't trouble the community.
     
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  13. Coruscanti Cognoscente

    Coruscanti Cognoscente Senior Member

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    Oh and I was gonna say, no wonder subway-building is such an expensive exercise in Toronto. Because a subway station in the middle of nowhere requires TWO bus terminals. God. I thought Metrolinx was supposed to solve this insanity. The TTC is driving me mad. But so is Metrolinx. Do you think if we merge them it'll be double the insanity or half the insanity?
     
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  14. Paleo

    Paleo Active Member

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    Oh but that would interfere with York's plans for its grand pedestrian paradise on the Commons.

    Judging by the Metrolinx fetish for connecting dots like Finch west and Sheppard, what do you think? They spend too much time obsessing about connecting the dots and the mythical cross-city trips that apparently everyone is doing. But then what do you expect when the premise of this subway extension into Vaughan is 110% madness to begin with?
     
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  15. EnviroTO

    EnviroTO Senior Member

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    To be fair it should be noted that the "bus terminal" on the north side is an outdoor curb with shelter. If fare integration occurs there wouldn't be much lost by moving the YRT and GO buses to the other terminal.
     
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