Toronto to experiment with prohibiting right turns on red at some intersections

[Anth]

Globe: Toronto's plan to restrict right turns has drivers seeing red

As part of a plan that aims to make the city's streets safer for pedestrians, Toronto traffic officials are planning to experiment with banning right turns on red lights at 10 intersections next year.

A plank in Toronto's Walking Strategy, on the agenda today at City Hall's works committee, calls for a pilot project at 10 to-be-chosen intersections, likely in pedestrian-heavy downtown areas.

However, the chairman of the works committee, Glenn De Baeremaeker, says he has no plan to turn Toronto into Montreal, where a ban on right turns on reds is as much a part of that city's distinct urban identity as smoked meat and poutine.

But he said at intersections with high foot traffic, banning right turns on red lights could reduce the number of pedestrians who get hit and make Toronto an easier place to walk around.

 

[CDL.TO]

"Toronto to experiment with banning right turns on red"

I think the thread title is a little misleading and needs an edit, as it makes it seem like Toronto is considering on banning ALL right turns on red.

 

[Anth]

Yeah, sorry about that. I still had the first sentence of the article on my mind and I found the same *after* submitting of course.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Definitely in favour of this on many downtown streets -- it's very rare at these intersections that a right turn on red is even POSSIBLE with the pedestrian traffic, but that doesn't stop some cars from trying to squeak through.

 

[RedRocket191]

This is a very good thing for pedestrians in this city. I hope that the experiment is proven to be a success.

 

[Jupiter]

It is good for pedestrians, so it is a benefit.

My concern would be as much as we should be giving pedestrians priority, I wonder how much this will back up traffic.

It seems that when downtown due to pedestrian volumes, your chances to turn are very limited as even when the light is green, pedestrians will be crossing with it, so you still cannot turn.

What about the possibility of the countdown timers being set as they are on some Bathurst intersections? Where after it hits 0 and pedestrians are told to stop, the light remains green for a few more seconds.

Anyway, overall it's probably a good idea, I'm just thinking of a potential drawback with it...

 

[nfitz]

Not seeing the big deal here - right on red is already not permitted at some intersections ... adding 10 more? So?

 

[ShonTron]

What about the possibility of the countdown timers being set as they are on some Bathurst intersections? Where after it hits 0 and pedestrians are told to stop, the light remains green for a few more seconds.

That's actually the "transit priority" system in action - if a streetcar is at the intersection, stopped and loading, the system detects it and allows extra time before the light goes red. A lot of the time it works, but sometimes the streetcar is still too slow and the lights go red anyway, delaying everyone. Bay and Dundas this happens all the time. The Dufferin bus has this at many intersections too.

 

[CDL.TO]

If you sit at Dundas and Bathurst for a little while you can watch how "transit priority" is able to actually make transit slower than no priority at all.

 

[confusion]

This is long overdue. Downtown is archaic when it comes to pedestrian infrastructure.

Does anyone know which intersections they are considering?

I do think there are some positives to this for car drivers too. This of a street like Wellesley St West. The section between Bay and Yonge becomes backed up the entire stretch every day coming up to Yonge and Wellesley, why, because 1 car turning right blocks the 15 behind him. Why can't he turn right? Because it is Yonge St, a street dominated by pedestrians. You get as many cars able to turn right as you do left. Prevent the right-hand turn and now you've actually got traffic flow.

Car drivers are so stupid sometimes.

 

[Dilla]

This is long overdue. Downtown is archaic when it comes to pedestrian infrastructure.

Does anyone know which intersections they are considering?

I do think there are some positives to this for car drivers too. This of a street like Wellesley St West. The section between Bay and Yonge becomes backed up the entire stretch every day coming up to Yonge and Wellesley, why, because 1 car turning right blocks the 15 behind him. Why can't he turn right? Because it is Yonge St, a street dominated by pedestrians. You get as many cars able to turn right as you do left. Prevent the right-hand turn and now you've actually got traffic flow.

Car drivers are so stupid sometimes.

This is only right hand turns on red lights (or filtering) being prevented. I'm afraid nothing will change on Wellesley.

 

[Jayomatic]

This is going to be a disaster. I agree it's better for pedestrians but you can guarantee that 80% of people won't follow the law. Since this isn't a province wide law, people from out of town won't pay attention. People barely pay attention to the signs and lights currently. Not to mention on some of the busiest pedestrian streets, turning on a red is your best option for moving traffic.

Perfect instance being King & Spadina. The left lanes on King Street are always jammed with people waiting to turn left so the right lane is pretty much the only way to keep traffic moving. Now with this you'll have 2 lanes jammed with people having to wait for 2 cars to make left and right turns. So you'll only really get 2 cars through the intersection between lights while traffic backs up down King Street. I'm sure pedestrians would love to be surrounded by gridlocked cars idling all day.

Let's hope the city picks the right streets because this could seriously gridlock streetcar movements on King, Queen, Dundas, and College streets.

 

[PukeGreen]

Nobody pays attention to the existing "no right turn" intersections. When it is permitted, cars turn right without stopping first, or roll three quarters of the way into the crosswalk and then stop inches from pedestrians kneecaps only when absolutely forced to do so. None of this is punished or enforced, and passing more laws won't help because those won't be enforced either.

Until the prevailing "I'm one guy in a car but I should get right of way over 30 pedestrians because my car is bigger" mentality goes away, nothing will change. And I can't see that ever happening.

 

[RedRocket191]

Nobody pays attention to the existing "no right turn" intersections. When it is permitted, cars turn right without stopping first, or roll three quarters of the way into the crosswalk and then stop inches from pedestrians kneecaps only when absolutely forced to do so. None of this is punished or enforced, and passing more laws won't help because those won't be enforced either.

Until the prevailing "I'm one guy in a car but I should get right of way over 30 pedestrians because my car is bigger" mentality goes away, nothing will change. And I can't see that ever happening.

Then it can't hurt to put up new signs, can it?

 

[adma]

I pay attention to no-right-turn-on-red signs. I've seen cops waiting to pounce on people headed for the Lansdowne No Frills fron e-bound Dundas.

And I agree with the "so what".