Time and Space Condos | 102m | 29s | Pemberton | Wallman Architects

Mongo

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70 Million Dollars! I think that this sucker's going to have to be huge. About how big will this project need to be to justify that kind of purchase price?
 

Mongo

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Right, meanwhile everything is low to mid-rise down there.:confused:
My point was that $70M has to be spread between the final purchasers of the property. If the portion of the total price PSF that consists of land costs is about $50 PSF (total final price PSF for that area might be what? $500 PSF? Which includes construction cost and profits. One-tenth of that total for land sounds reasonable to me), then you need to have 1.4 million square feet of salable area. No matter how you slice it, that's a lot. I'm guessing three towers, 30s, 40s and 47s, with average floor plates of about 14,000 square feet each (half of what a typical large office tower would have), which includes common areas.
 

CityPainter

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This is in fact an enormous site. I believe it encompasses the entire block currently occupied by Sobey's and the Acura dealership. The only part of the block excluded is that decrepit smelly building on the northeast corner of Esplanade and Sherbourne, but I imagine that wouldn't be a difficult obstacle to overcome with a few millions bucks. So the end result could be a condo development on par with the scale of Vu, which also takes up a full block and contains towers, mid-height sections, and townhouses.

Yes, there will be opposition to height -- look at what's happening with the condos planned for the former Greyhound Depot nearby. But I think those battles will be lost. The precedent for height east of Yonge has been set with Market Wharf, Spire, Pure Spirits, Clear Spirits, etc. The density of this area will be incredible, though.

I'd be happy to see this be developed, but my only fear is that this development will go the same "temporary parking lot" route as the Greyhound site. I would hate to lose the Sobey's and then end up stuck with a vast parking lot for years or decades if the condo boom collapses before this thing gets started.
 

Mongo

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Looking at Google Maps, the entire block looks to be about 360 feet by 220 feet or thereabouts, for an area of about 79,000 square feet. 1,400,000 divided by 79,000 gives a coverage of 17.7 times the total lot area (including the unbought building). So the developer would need to build 18 stories tall over the entire block to reach a land cost of $50 PSF. Of course, if they accepted a land cost of $100 PSF, they would only need to build 9 stories tall over the entire block, but that seems like a high PSF price to me, not to mention that the middle of the block would be claustrophobic and without natural light.

How about an MLS-type project, with a 4-story podium covering all of the block (316ksf), plus two 45s or 3 30s point towers (1080ksf) on top, for total heights including the podium of 2 x 49s or 3 x 34s?
 
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chriskayTO

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Over the last couple of days, a company has been drilling both in the Sobeys loading dock area yesterday and today they're in the Acura dealership lot today. They've left behind some oil drums. Anyone know what's up? Here's a photo showing the drill location yesterday on the right (with the barrels) and you can just make out the drill rig behind the trees on right left and there are more barrels today.

 

DSC

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Over the last couple of days, a company has been drilling both in the Sobeys loading dock area yesterday and today they're in the Acura dealership lot today. They've left behind some oil drums. Anyone know what's up? Here's a photo showing the drill location yesterday on the right (with the barrels) and you can just make out the drill rig behind the trees on right left and there are more barrels today.
I would assume that the new owners are doing some tests to see how deep the bed-rock is on the site. It's clearly less costly to dig out earth than shale so knowing what you are likely to find helps the know what to build and what the cost will be.
 
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CityPainter

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Over the last couple of days, a company has been drilling both in the Sobeys loading dock area yesterday and today they're in the Acura dealership lot today. They've left behind some oil drums. Anyone know what's up? Here's a photo showing the drill location yesterday on the right (with the barrels) and you can just make out the drill rig behind the trees on right left and there are more barrels today.
Hey, judging from the point-of-view of that photo you're in my building :)

I saw that drill thing yesterday, too. My theory was they were maybe doing some testing to see what they might be in for when they start future excavations. I hate to ask, but like the rest of the neighbourhood, is this former industrial land that may be contaminated? I know the co-ops across Sherbourne (in the background of your photo) used to be train repair yards until early last century, but I don't know what was on this Sobey's/Acura lot historically.
 

wopchop

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They're likely performing soil testing, which the owner is legally responsible for providing to any future general contractors. The owner would not be able to get any bids for a future project if they did not. Knowing the soil analysis will also assist them in determining the scale of project that is possible on their new land - as it will provide them with a ballpark cost, which also helps to determine what kind of financing they can obtain, and what sort of design that they will push for.
 
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metroTO

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Market Wharf's site is contaminated which is why they put parking above grade in the podium.
I am guessing they will do the same here which means the podium will probably be pretty huge.
 

DSC

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Market Wharf's site is contaminated which is why they put parking above grade in the podium.
I am guessing they will do the same here which means the podium will probably be pretty huge.
Do you know the site is contaminated? There are many other buildings in the area with underground parking.
 

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