The Southlands | ?m | 72s | Camrost-Felcorp | a—A

Observer Walt

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,860
Reaction score
0
Location
East Mississauga
Have not seen this posted elsewhere; my apologies if it is already here. Land on the south side of Burnhamthorpe Road, at the southwest corner of Kariya Drive, one block west of Hurontario, has been recently purchased by Greenpark Homes. The total site area is just under six acres. This land has been vacant for decades, but is in very close proximity to both existing condominium apartments and office development in the City Centre.

Part of the land would have to be dedicated to the City, for an extension of Webb Drive which presently dead-ends at the west end of this land. We'll watch to see what proposal may come forward, presumably within the next few months.

As a side point, Greenpark is noted more for low-rise development, so this may signal a change of strategy for them. More likely, I would guess that a joint venture may be in the works.
 

wopchop

Building Toronto
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
1,645
Reaction score
746
Location
Oakville
Not surprising. Seems like the next logical step ... Greenpark is already doing Allure @ Yonge & Davisville (12s, I think), and a 23s building on Main Street in Markham.
 
Last edited:

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,116
Reaction score
16,670
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Have not seen this posted elsewhere; my apologies if it is already here. Land on the south side of Burnhamthorpe Road, at the southwest corner of Kariya Drive, one block west of Hurontario, has been recently purchased by Greenpark Homes. The total site area is just under six acres. This land has been vacant for decades, but is in very close proximity to both existing condominium apartments and office development in the City Centre.

Part of the land would have to be dedicated to the City, for an extension of Webb Drive which presently dead-ends at the west end of this land. We'll watch to see what proposal may come forward, presumably within the next few months.

As a side point, Greenpark is noted more for low-rise development, so this may signal a change of strategy for them. More likely, I would guess that a joint venture may be in the works.

Greenpark also own land on the west side of Confederation Dr and Burnhamthorpe.

Until Webb Dr gets extended to Kariya Drive, which is not in 2011-16 budget, not much is going to get built there at this time.

High density will be along Burnhamthorpe with 2 mid block street to line up with new north-south street going from Webb Dr to Sq One Mall.

There are to be a number of new projects for this area under different developers plan, but down the road 5-10 years.

Until the City comes to term on the Downtown 21 plan, not much is going to happen for this area.

There been talk that the north-west corner is going to see a 350,000 Sq Ft office tower and that is small for the area.

The City is afraid of tall building in the centre core as well Sq One is dictating too much as to what and what cannot be built around the mall.

Webb Dr would run along the north edge of the school and park property line.

This thread should a blanked thread for the whole area that will be broken down in to various projects as they develop.

The City is pushing for development on the north side of Burnhamthorpe including Sq One Mall land.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,116
Reaction score
16,670
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
This property should be office if you ask me. Or at least office with residential on top.

Other than the south-west corner, south side will be condos.

I agree that buildings need to be mix to the point you can have small schools, hospital, community centre in them as well hotels.

Since land is getting in short supplied as well trying to get people to live, work and play in the same area, we must move a different mixture of building use to do it.
 

taal

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
6,703
Reaction score
183
Location
NYCC
Greenpark also own land on the west side of Confederation Dr and Burnhamthorpe.

Until Webb Dr gets extended to Kariya Drive, which is not in 2011-16 budget, not much is going to get built there at this time.

High density will be along Burnhamthorpe with 2 mid block street to line up with new north-south street going from Webb Dr to Sq One Mall.

There are to be a number of new projects for this area under different developers plan, but down the road 5-10 years.

Until the City comes to term on the Downtown 21 plan, not much is going to happen for this area.

There been talk that the north-west corner is going to see a 350,000 Sq Ft office tower and that is small for the area.

The City is afraid of tall building in the centre core as well Sq One is dictating too much as to what and what cannot be built around the mall.

Webb Dr would run along the north edge of the school and park property line.

This thread should a blanked thread for the whole area that will be broken down in to various projects as they develop.

The City is pushing for development on the north side of Burnhamthorpe including Sq One Mall land.

Curious why you say that's small 350,000 would most likely be the largest office building in MCC ... note I say MCC, because the area around the airport and medolvale (mind my spelling) where basically all office development in Mississauga has a couple buildings larger then this I'm sure, some of the huge campus like offices.
 

Marko

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
817
Reaction score
1
Location
Absolute
Sussex Centre is 650,000 sq' between the 2 buildings, so the larger of the two is likely around 350,000. It's not small, per se, but smaller than a profile property like that would ideally have. It's more of the same as opposed to something taller or more prominent, considering the increase in heights of other buildings going up in the last decade and in the future.

Personally, I think the south side of Burnhamthorpe is OK for residential and/or mixed use, while the entire north side - from Duke of York to Hurontario - should be entirely hotel, commercial or institutional with retail or services on all sides at ground level. Considering the crater in the skyline that this area now creates, it begs for a high rise office tower. That square patch of grass on the NW corner of B'thorpe and Kariya is begging for a 30+ story office tower with a multi-level podium. The taller, the better, IMO.

There's room for 3 or 4 buildings on the property being discussed and I hope they're all 30+ floors of residential, with good integration to the street as this stretch will be key for Downtown21.

** edit ** Not that Empress Walk in NYCC is perfect, but that's the sort of thing I thing makes sense here. A mixture of retail, commercial and residential with perhaps a grocery store and movie theatre type thing, so one of the 2 other multi-plex eyesores in MCC can be replaced sooner rather than later. MCC is going to need more grocery stores going forward and this would be a very central location to a lot of the condos in place or going in.
 
Last edited:

Marko

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
817
Reaction score
1
Location
Absolute
The City is afraid of tall building in the centre core as well Sq One is dictating too much as to what and what cannot be built around the mall.
There is no height restriction in the MCC. Can you expand on this a little in terms of what you mean by 'afraid'?

The City is pushing for development on the north side of Burnhamthorpe including Sq One Mall land.
What do they expect to go in - if not tall - considering the value of that land?
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,116
Reaction score
16,670
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
The land is at the corner of Burnhamthorpe and Kariya Dr. The sold sign is up there and have never seen the realtor name before.

Its going to a long time before we see anything taller or taller as Absolute.
 

Marko

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
817
Reaction score
1
Location
Absolute
Its going to a long time before we see anything taller or taller as Absolute.
Other than Parkside, you mean.

Is that what you meant by "city being afraid of tall" - taller than Absolute? Because I don't see that as much of a problem. If commercial buildings are going in, I don't think they want more of the 4-8 story kind, but few developers would dconsider anything nearing 45 stories. One or two over time, maybe, but even some in the 20-35 range would do well to fill in the gaps along the west side of Hurontario and north side of Burnhamthorpe, bringing a lot of employment into the 'core'.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,116
Reaction score
16,670
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Other than Parkside, you mean.

Is that what you meant by "city being afraid of tall" - taller than Absolute? Because I don't see that as much of a problem. If commercial buildings are going in, I don't think they want more of the 4-8 story kind, but few developers would dconsider anything nearing 45 stories. One or two over time, maybe, but even some in the 20-35 range would do well to fill in the gaps along the west side of Hurontario and north side of Burnhamthorpe, bringing a lot of employment into the 'core'.

Unless things have change or I miss something, the tallest building in Parkside is 50 story.

Yes for Absolute Towers.

I like to see taller buildings, but its has the same problem Toronto has for going 100+ floors.

Given there is no real demand for office space in the city core at this time, cannot see any tall commercial buildings going up that will be higher than what there.

If I had my way, I would tear most of those building on City Center down and start all over again, with parking underground 100% as well closer to the street edge. This way, you can put 2 building up that are larger than what there now in the same location.
 

khris

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
8,601
Reaction score
481
Location
Toronto, ON
Don't pay any attention to drum. He has no idea what he's talking about.

The mayor herself has even said that the city centre of Mississauga has no limit on height.
 

Marko

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
817
Reaction score
1
Location
Absolute
The mayor herself has even said that the city centre of Mississauga has no limit on height.
I don't think he's disputed that - we all agree there is no legal height restriction - but it seems that the city is either unable to attract any key tenants into potential buildings in the MCC area, or the mall does in fact hold too much influence over what goes around it.

There is probably a million square feet of office space added in Mississauga yearly, but none of it in the core. I can understand 4 storey campus style developments out near the highways, but some of those buildings are now 8-10 floors over a very wide footprint, which could have been 20 floors. Costs play a factor of course, but it seems I agree with Drum118 that I would rip down all those crap lowrise office buildings along Square One Dr and let the development begin again from scratch with buildings that meet the street properly.

Somebody within the city has the job of working with developers and attracting business and tenants and it seems they're content to leave the parking lots as they are. The city models don't seem to consider highrises for anything other than residential and even the commercial fillers are more of the same spaced out, parking lot style as already exists. If there's a will, there's room for maybe 20 more buildings on surrounding land that doesn't belong to the mall. They need people in there with little more piss and vinegar, IMO.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,116
Reaction score
16,670
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Don't pay any attention to drum. He has no idea what he's talking about.

The mayor herself has even said that the city centre of Mississauga has no limit on height.

I do know what I am talking about since I spend time talking to staff. Just because the Queen says there is no height restriction, doesn't mean there is not one.

I have heard the no restriction comments for the past 9 years from various departments, but talking to various people, they don't like to see tall buildings. Some of those people are councilors who have kill projects due to height issues.

On the 19th, there is a meeting for the Uptown Mississauga development and you will hear we don't want taller building than what there now. In fact, there will be a push to decrease the height. The developer wants to go taller.

I don't see you standing before council pushing for higher density and taller building like I do.

Until there is another building that is taller than Absolute, the ceiling is low at this time. I don't know of any project in the pipeline that will be taller than 50 story at this time. Maybe in 10-20 years there maybe one.
 

Top