The Great Falls | 225m | 60s | 3Bridges | Hariri Pontarini

maestro

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If people take such issue with Dubai developers, then they should have the same issue any time a state owned Chinese firm comes in and builds stuff, just saying.

Putting the Dubai issue aside, the fact that they're looking for such a partnership here clearly signals they're serious about this project, and probably not looking to VE either.

Dubai may be built on the backs of slave labour but it does know how to do tourism, which in the limited context in which that pertains to NF is most certainly a positive.

Every single one of these Niagara Falls proposals is seeking out an international equity partner. This article is the best in marketing fluff. Any truth to being Dubai fanboys comes across as amateurish. Why would you limit yourself to a handful of local developers in Dubai? Sobha is very active developer in Dubai. They're Indian.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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You do have to wonder who is buying up the units for these projects - I can't imagine that is much uptake from locals.

In any event - there is no better example of an Ontario municipality that turned such a magnificent natural wonder into a liability - instead of reinforcing the visual integrity of the falls, they encouraged worthless carbuncles to intrude on it. Too bad the falls are no longer eroding away as quickly - putting an end to this nonsense.

AoD
 
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Northern Light

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You do have to wonder who is buying up the units for these projects - I can't imagine that is much uptake from locals.

In any event - there is no better example of an Ontario municipality that turned such a magnificent natural wonder into a liability.

AoD

I think, on both sides of the border, at Niagara you see so much lost opportunity.

I would argue that the Falls should have been home to an 'International Park' protected on both sides of the border. Urban development could be allowed, at a respectful distance, but carefully controlled so as not impede good 'natural' views of the Falls.

Niagara Reimagined:

You approach via the 405 or 420, with both morphing into grand boulevards as you approach the urban part of the Falls.

Except to respect the odd heritage building, the Niagara Parkway is pulled back at least 100M from the Niagara Gorge at all times; most of that buffer is devoted to nature, except for a wide bike trail; and , as you approach The Falls themselves, a grand pedestrian Plaza; though periodic views and outlooks over the Gorge are allowed.

The Falls gets critical mass nature along the Escarpment, on both sides of the border, with the Bruce Trail largely off-road, in nature. Trail heads at key road crossings feature signage, seats, washrooms and waterbottle fill stations/drink fountains.

Short Hills Provincial Park is 4x the size, connected all the way to Highway 406.

The Welland River becomes the heart of a green corridor with a 300M buffer of nature on both sides and hiking trail on one side and paved bike trail on the other.

A critical mass nature preserve is established where it meets the Niagara River.

The urban portion of the Falls is mostly capped at 25s in height, with buildings placed strategically so none blocks key 'natural' views, and so each building can have some view of The Falls from middle to higher floors.

Great streetscapes, walkability, and planned connections to surrounding nature and wine country via scenic drives, bike trails, hiking paths, and regional transit.

The urban area is anchored by both an LRT and by GO coming in from both sides, looping from TH&B trackage back to the CN Grimsby (Lakeshore) trackage.

****

*end Distracting daydream/tangent*
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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I think, on both sides of the border, at Niagara you see so much lost opportunity.

I would argue that the Falls should have been home to an 'International Park' protected on both sides of the border. Urban development could be allowed, at a respectful distance, but carefully controlled so as not impede good 'natural' views of the Falls.

Niagara Reimagined:

You approach via the 405 or 420, with both morphing into grand boulevards as you approach the urban part of the Falls.

Except to respect the odd heritage building, the Niagara Parkway is pulled back at least 100M from the Niagara Gorge at all times; most of that buffer is devoted to nature, except for a wide bike trail; and , as you approach The Falls themselves, a grand pedestrian Plaza; though periodic views and outlooks over the Gorge are allowed.

The Falls gets critical mass nature along the Escarpment, on both sides of the border, with the Bruce Trail largely off-road, in nature. Trail heads at key road crossings feature signage, seats, washrooms and waterbottle fill stations/drink fountains.

Short Hills Provincial Park is 4x the size, connected all the way to Highway 406.

The Welland River becomes the heart of a green corridor with a 300M buffer of nature on both sides and hiking trail on one side and paved bike trail on the other.

A critical mass nature preserve is established where it meets the Niagara River.

The urban portion of the Falls is mostly capped at 25s in height, with buildings placed strategically so none blocks key 'natural' views, and so each building can have some view of The Falls from middle to higher floors.

Great streetscapes, walkability, and planned connections to surrounding nature and wine country via scenic drives, bike trails, hiking paths, and regional transit.

The urban area is anchored by both an LRT and by GO coming in from both sides, looping from TH&B trackage back to the CN Grimsby (Lakeshore) trackage.

****

*end Distracting daydream/tangent*

I would love to live to the day when we knock each and every one of those ersatz garbage around the falls to the ground.

AoD
 

cd concept

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Yeah if you're an Emirati citizen, all of whom are provided with cradle to grave care, but only about a quarter of the population are citizens and they're not accepting PR applications lol

Edit: it's more like one tenth of the population are citizens. And you thought Canada imported cheap labour like no tomorrow!
Where talking about two major developers teaming up to develope something big here with clout. Skilled foreign workers are more likely be working at this site not unskilled. We have a good share of unskilled worker here to fill the void lol!
 

wmedia

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I enjoy a bit of tacky here and there. I'm probably one of the few on here that enjoy the chaotic mess that is Dundas Square, a walk down the ludicrous Vegas Strip, a stroll around the tat of Clifton Hill. To me, that mess is vibrant. It's alive. Every city should have some tack, some chaos, some kitsch.
 

gabe

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Niagara Falls, ON is like Vegas, only tackier (and Vegas is plenty tacky).

Vegas isn’t nearly as delightfully tacky as it used to be. Everything is becoming more high-end in all sectors.. hospitality, shopping, shows, dining. Eataly for example has opened up the strip. Would be nice to see something like that in Niagara. Make a strip of land near the Fallsview casino a shopping/dining district for adults. They don't need Clifton Hill part 2
 

Rascacielo

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Niagara Falls is Vegas without the money for expensive, high quality tacky.

AoD
Unfortunately there’s plenty of expensive, low-quality stuffs in Niagara Falls. I had breakfast at IHOP - cost about $23 after tax and tip for a breakfast set including coffee. The same set would probably cost about $10-12 US in the States. Steak at Outback about $55 vs less than $20 US in Manhattan.

These prices were from 5-6 years ago. Can’t imagine what they charge now!
 

Northern Light

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Unfortunately there’s plenty of expensive, low-quality stuffs in Niagara Falls. I had breakfast at IHOP - cost about $23 after tax and tip for a breakfast set including coffee. The same set would probably cost about $10-12 US in the States. Steak at Outback about $55 vs less than $20 US in Manhattan.

These prices were from 5-6 years ago. Can’t imagine what they charge now!

A small part of that difference is that Canadian wait staff typically have higher minimum wage (and lower tips) than their U.S. counterparts.

Tipped Minimum Wage:

Michigan: $3.75USD ($5.14CAD) per hour
New York: $10USD ($13.72CAD)
Vegas: $9.75USD ($13.37CAD)

Ontario: $15.50CAD

That's only a small part of the difference mind you, but an important one, and important to consider US tipping culture is 20% rather than 15 in reflection of those lower bills, which means you should add 5% to your US bill when thinking
of the comparison.

Also essential to factor in that exchange rate.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the price of IHOP in Manhattan:


Cheapest Breakfast combo appears to be $14.49USD without a coffee, that adds $1.49. So total minimum cost is $15.98USD before tax and tip.

New York State sales tax is 8% (they have no federal tax).

If you go at 1.08x to start, you get $17.25USD; add 20% for a tip and you get $20.70USD which is $28.38CAD (at 15% tip, $27.20CAD)

Outback would depend, of course, on what steak you purchased.

I didn't see a Manhattan location at quick glance, but this is the menu for Brooklyn, NY


The Canadian store in NF doesn't show prices on its menus, LOL, but Uber Eats does.......

So to compare 12oz Ribeye: 26.49USD ($36.32CAD) in Brooklyn vs $55.99CAD in NF

That is a material difference not justified by wage differential.
 

Rascacielo

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A small part of that difference is that Canadian wait staff typically have higher minimum wage (and lower tips) than their U.S. counterparts.

Tipped Minimum Wage:

Michigan: $3.75USD ($5.14CAD) per hour
New York: $10USD ($13.72CAD)
Vegas: $9.75USD ($13.37CAD)

Ontario: $15.50CAD

That's only a small part of the difference mind you, but an important one, and important to consider US tipping culture is 20% rather than 15 in reflection of those lower bills, which means you should add 5% to your US bill when thinking
of the comparison.

Also essential to factor in that exchange rate.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the price of IHOP in Manhattan:


Cheapest Breakfast combo appears to be $14.49USD without a coffee, that adds $1.49. So total minimum cost is $15.98USD before tax and tip.

New York State sales tax is 8% (they have no federal tax).

If you go at 1.08x to start, you get $17.25USD; add 20% for a tip and you get $20.70USD which is $28.38CAD (at 15% tip, $27.20CAD)

Outback would depend, of course, on what steak you purchased.

I didn't see a Manhattan location at quick glance, but this is the menu for Brooklyn, NY


The Canadian store in NF doesn't show prices on its menus, LOL, but Uber Eats does.......

So to compare 12oz Ribeye: 26.49USD ($36.32CAD) in Brooklyn vs $55.99CAD in NF

That is a material difference not justified by wage differential.
Thanks for doing the research. You’re comparing current prices. My meals at Outback and IHOP in NF were years ago, when the exchange rate was much lower (I don’t remember exactly, but it was below 1.25), and so was inflation of course. Paying $23 for breakfast may not be a big deal today (a breakfast set at Sunset Grill or Cora’s probably costs that much with tax and tip), but it was back then. And I’m sure the US prices were lower then.

My point is NF is a tourist trap, where restaurants can get away with overcharging because hungry tourists will pay anyway (and if all the establishments overcharge, visitors have no option). I wouldn’t be surprised if even Canadian chains like Milestone and Jack Astor’s there charge more compared to here (GTA), let alone US brands which can’t be found in Toronto (eg IHOP. & Outback).
 

Northern Light

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Thanks for doing the research. You’re comparing current prices. My meals at Outback and IHOP in NF were years ago, when the exchange rate was much lower (I don’t remember exactly, but it was below 1.25), and so was inflation of course. Paying $23 for breakfast may not be a big deal today (a breakfast set at Sunset Grill or Cora’s probably costs that much with tax and tip), but it was back then. And I’m sure the US prices were lower then.

My point is NF is a tourist trap, where restaurants can get away with overcharging because hungry tourists will pay anyway (and if all the establishments overcharge, visitors have no option). I wouldn’t be surprised if even Canadian chains like Milestone and Jack Astor’s there charge more compared to here (GTA), let alone US brands which can’t be found in Toronto (eg IHOP. & Outback).

A quick glance at 'The Keg suggests a premium of ~35% in NF compared with the location on The Esplanade (compared 8oz Teriyaki Sirloin)
 

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