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It's hard to know what to think of what to do with 90 Harbour. Though on the plain side, it's solid as stand-alone architecture 'in the round', and a great example of a historical type of moderne, or late deco. A facadectomy would horribly diminish it, as would having it cut up or built over by a huge tower. It sits pretty much in the middle of it's odd-shaped lot, so it can't easily be built behind, or around. It's also too big to just put up on beams and move somewhere. The site is a challenge too, with massive auto ramps zipping hither and yon, overshadowing the site and it's staid little occupant.
I think the bus station idea isn't a good one either - the building is hardly built to function as an inspirational meeting hall, and would likely have to endure some unsympathetic cutting and alteration to make it work. It's also just a bit too far away from Union Station to claim the site as a virtue.

The size of the lot for 90 Harbour and The Harbour Commission building together is gigantic, though - and almost empty.

Although usually I'm often opposed to this sort of thing, in this case, I wouldn't mind seeing the Harbour Commission Building raised up on beams and floated down the street, until it comes to rest at the foot of Yonge Street, or over at the edge of Sherbourne Common. This would give it a chance to shine at the water's edge once again as it was built, even if the location wouldn't be quite historically accurate.

If the two lots could then be assembled together, 90 Harbour could be renovated and retained, delicately joined to a (hopefully) impressively tall, exciting new development on the empty former Harbour Commission lot that would bear the brunt of architectural and financial scale, returns, etc.

Since all of this is a tad unrealistic, I think my plan B would to see 90 Harbour simply renovated as is, with a small on-site tower tucked to one side if necessary, and the grounds made lovely. (With a lush complimentary park, instead of a parking lot, around the Harbour Commission, too). None of it sounds like it'd offer enough return on the necessary investments to make it worth the company's while, though, I'm afraid. But one hope's there's a way to treat this building well, instead of demolishing it, or turning it into a shadow if its already neglected self.
 
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It's hard to know what to think of what to do with 90 Harbour. Though on the plain side, it's solid as stand-alone architecture 'in the round', and a great example of a historical type of moderne, or late deco. A facadectomy would horribly diminish it, as would having it cut up or built over by a huge tower. It sits pretty much in the middle of it's odd-shaped lot, so it can't easily be built behind, or around. It's also too big to just put up on beams and move somewhere. The site is a challenge too, with massive auto ramps zipping hither and yon, overshadowing the site and it's staid little occupant.
I think the bus station idea isn't a good one either - the building is hardly built to function as an inspirational meeting hall, and would likely have to endure some unsympathetic cutting and alteration to make it work. It's also just a bit too far away from Union Station to claim the site as a virtue.

The size of the lot for 90 Harbour and The Harbour Commission building together is gigantic, though - and almost empty.



Although usually I'm often opposed to this sort of thing, in this case, I wouldn't mind seeing the Harbour Commission Building raised up on beams and floated down the street, until it comes to rest at the foot of Yonge Street, or over at the edge of Sherbourne Common. This would give it a chance to shine at the water's edge once again as it was built, even if the location wouldn't be quite historically accurate.

If the two lots could then be assembled together, 90 Harbour could be renovated and retained, delicately joined to a (hopefully) impressively tall, exciting new development on the empty former Harbour Commission lot that would bear the brunt of architectural and financial scale, returns, etc.

Since all of this is a tad unrealistic, I think my plan B would to see 90 Harbour simply renovated as is, with a small on-site tower tucked to one side if necessary, and the grounds made lovely. (With a lush complimentary park, instead of a parking lot, around the Harbour Commission, too). None of it sounds like it'd offer enough return on the necessary investments to make it worth the company's while, though, I'm afraid. But one hope's there's a way to treat this building well, instead of demolishing it, or turning it into a shadow if its already neglected self.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you. There are some significant architectural jewels that should be preserved (a.k.a. 60 Harbour) and there are others that simply take up valuable space (a.k.a. 90 Harbour) 90 Harbour is a large under used building of no real architectural significance. I have no problem seeing this building demolished to make way for the future.
 
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. There are some significant architectural jewels that should be preserved (a.k.a. 60 Harbour) and there are others that simply take up valuable space (a.k.a. 90 Harbour) 90 Harbour is a large under used building of no real architectural significance. I have no problem seeing this building demolished to make way for the future.

Preserving older buildings of little architectural significance can still be valuable for the city. If it can be reused to provide cheaper space for uses which diverge from the common ones in the area like offices for financial firms and affluent condos, then it could make the area more vibrant and pleasant. That's the kind of future for the area I'd prefer.
 
I'd love to save 90 Harbour, simply by virtue of the fact that it's the only thing in this neighbourhood that's not made entirely of grey/green glass.
 
Although usually I'm often opposed to this sort of thing, in this case, I wouldn't mind seeing the Harbour Commission Building raised up on beams and floated down the street, until it comes to rest at the foot of Yonge Street, or over at the edge of Sherbourne Common. This would give it a chance to shine at the water's edge once again as it was built, even if the location wouldn't be quite historically accurate.

Yes, I agee with you on this. It is somewhat lost where it is now which is a shame. As for historical 'accuracy' some here will argue tooth and nail for the preservation of location while completely ignoring the preservation of context. Moving the Harbour Commission Building back to the harbour would give renewed meaning and relevance to it.
 
The foot of Bay Street would be ideal - at least it would be aligned with it's current location. Looking at Google maps I know there's a passive park there but there's also a small surface parking lot (probably part of Harbour Square condos); but it looks like it could easily fit in there :)

Meanwhile ...keep those votes coming for "Union Heights"..it's now climbed to page 4! Only 800 or so votes to crack the top 10 ...woo hooo! Sorry...couldn't resist.
 
Yes, I agee with you on this. It is somewhat lost where it is now which is a shame. As for historical 'accuracy' some here will argue tooth and nail for the preservation of location while completely ignoring the preservation of context. Moving the Harbour Commission Building back to the harbour would give renewed meaning and relevance to it.

And to repeat, they proposed the same for Fort York on behalf of the Gardiner Expressway in the 1950s. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Decontextualization and all, THC is fine where it is--less insipid than what you're proposing. As it stands, it's like an architectural/heritage baseball bat to the skulls of those messageboarding skyscraper/development dorks who'd *love* to see a little supertall urban intensification here...
 
And to repeat, they proposed the same for Fort York on behalf of the Gardiner Expressway in the 1950s. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Decontextualization and all, THC is fine where it is--less insipid than what you're proposing. As it stands, it's like an architectural/heritage baseball bat to the skulls of those messageboarding skyscraper/development dorks who'd *love* to see a little supertall urban intensification here...

Based on this reasoning we would move the St Lawrence Market and St Lawrence Hall down to Sugar Beach just because the Market once backed onto Lake Ontario. Buildings are not like chess pieces that can (or should) be moved around and leaving the HC building where it is does (maybe) remind people that the land to its south was once lake. That's not to say that the area around the HC building could not be improved!
 
would like to see a big podium building here connected to PATH.. maybe Dundas Square type vertical mall with a condo above
 
90 Harbour is a classic mid-modern institutional building. Maybe it's not old enough for some people.
 
I'd like to see 90 Harbour preserved as well, but it is under used and in danger of falling into disrepair. I'm actually surprised that Toronto Police haven't grabbed this as their headquarters, it certainly would have some historical connection. Also I do think that a transit hub is conceivable. It's close to the MLS/ACC area and a connection to them through the PATH would provide an easy link to Union. We've seen a building like the ACC transformed from a auto serviced building (mail cars would drive in and out of the building) to a human one. Why can't this building be converted the other way for buses.

I know everyone wants super density but I think with everything going on around it that maybe this site could get by at 20 to 30 stories (a la Telus) rather than 60 story skyscrapers. Maybe a small park as well to serve the residents and business people in the area.
 
Why can't this building be converted the other way for buses..

I think the big problem is that it is really not very convenient for people wanting to connect to other modes of transit. VIA, GO or the subway. Would you really want to arrive at 90 Harbour and lug a suitcase to Union Station? It is probably POSSIBLE to use the site/building for buses but just because something can be done does not make it a good idea. A much better location is over the present GO bus station with an underground connection to Union and the PATH system - though that idea may not actually be technically possible.
 
Based on this reasoning we would move the St Lawrence Market and St Lawrence Hall down to Sugar Beach just because the Market once backed onto Lake Ontario.

Not at all. Why would anybody advocate blanket solutions for all heritage buildings? St. Lawrence Market is well used and extremely visible, forming the core of an entire neighbourhood. No need to touch it. Also, Adma's comment about Fort York makes me shudder but somehow it doesn't quite project to the HC building in the same way.

Dogma is fine if you view heritage buildings as dead or frozen in amber, which in certain cases is an extremely valid viewpoint. For the most part, however, heritage buildings stand a far better chance if they continue to be relevant, and if they continue to be valued and used.

Buildings are not like chess pieces that can (or should) be moved around and leaving the HC building where it is does (maybe) remind people that the land to its south was once lake. That's not to say that the area around the HC building could not be improved!

That's just the point: In its current context the HC building will never be the catalyst for the type of improvements or changes that one would envisage in order to improve its fate. On the contrary, as the city grows around it the pressure to develop this low-density site will only increase... and who would raise much of a fuss on behalf of what is largely an overlooked, out of the way building that has little relevance to anybody but heritage geeks?

That said, I'm not arguing that I hate the building where it is so much as I don't hate the idea of moving it either. A relocation to a waterfront site becomes part of the building's history/evolution as it reclaims what truly is its original location in terms of context. At a more prominent site it stands a far better chance of being embraced and appreciated by a larger public who will go on to see it with far greater perspective than before.
 

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