Remington Centre | ?m | 33s | Remington Group | Kohn

lesouris

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When the signs are in CHINESE ONLY, it is to the exclusion of others...
Not necessarily. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what a store is selling, even if you can't read its name. If you really needed to know you could just ask, or even make the effort to learn some Chinese yourself.

These mono-ethnic malls are just fueling ethnic and racial tensions in areas such as Markham.. There is nothing stopping anyone from going to a traditional mall, but these malls, with Chinese Only signs, dirty looks to non-Chinese, and discrimination only serve to fuel ethnic tensions..
So far, you haven't been able to show there's any real discrimination and you seem to be making a lot of assumumptions on your part. You bring your baggage with you interpretting anything through the lens of "I'm white and Chinese people are racist, etc." A person looking at you automatically becomes "I'm getting a dirty look because I'm white." Your attachment to this idea of racial tension obviously colours your perspective.

Heck just the other day, in another Chinese Mall in Markham, I was questioned by a patron asking "What I was doing there?", strongly implying that I was not welcome because I was white!
That is not right..
See? That "strong implication" is your reading of the event. It could very well be that this person had other motivations for asking you this, and even if it was because of your race, that does not necessarily mean it was a malaicious remark. You could be misinterpretting this. Even if you were right, this was a run-in with a customer, not a store owner/employee - why should you care what they think? People say and do stupid things all the time.
 

wyliepoon

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When the signs are in CHINESE ONLY, it is to the exclusion of others...
It's interesting that on the facade of Pacific Mall is the name of the mall in English only. The other two signs on the facade are translated in English. The whole thing about Chinese malls having Chinese-only signage is a myth.



The majority of the stores have both English and Chinese signage (just like in Hong Kong, where most retail signage is translated into English). I see some valid concerns for products or menus that might not be labelled or translated into English but I think this has to do more with the staff of the store/restaurant lacking strong command of English (or the difficulty of translating an Asian product without making it sound like Engrish) than the store/restaurant actually trying to exclude non-Chinese.

These mono-ethnic malls are just fueling ethnic and racial tensions in areas such as Markham.. There is nothing stopping anyone from going to a traditional mall, but these malls, with Chinese Only signs, dirty looks to non-Chinese, and discrimination only serve to fuel ethnic tensions.
What tension is there? I've seen a lot of white customers shopping at Pacific Mall (ahem... at the pirated DVD shops) and they came out quite satisfied. The Chinese merchants there are interested in your money, not whether you are white, black or Chinese.
 
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JayBee

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It's not racist at all. It's being marketed as a Chinese mall in a (gasp!) primarily Chinese area where it can make money by providing goods and services to the primarily Chinese population in the language they're comfortable with. If a non-Chinese person wanted to open up a store here, what would stop them? Not much besides the fact that there are better locations available elsewhere where they could make more money.

When it comes to "White Malls" - it's kind of like explaining to a kid why there's a Mother's Day and a Father's Day, but not a Kid's Day (because everyday is Kid's Day). The English language (which is what I assume you mean by White) is spoken at most malls and products targetting English-speakers are widely available. If they weren't, then maybe you'd see White Malls. We need to get past this racism thing and see a Chinese Mall not as a mall for Chinese people to the exclusion of all others, but a mall where Chinese is spoken and Chinese products are available.

When the areas demographics change - assuming this mall gets built and is still around - what's in the mall will change too.
Couldn't have put it any better

For the record, I've never felt like an outsider at Pacific Mall or any of the other "Chinese" malls in North York and Scarborough. I really don't mind these "ethnic themed" malls.
 
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digitalcabana

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Remington Centre



Major mall planned for Markham, Ontario

Patricia Williams
Daily Commericial News
June 29, 2009

The Remington Group Inc., the driving force behind the $3 billion Downtown Markham development, has unveiled plans for an 800,000-square-foot mall at the intersection of Steeles Avenue and Kennedy Road.

A firm date has not been set for groundbreaking of the Remington Centre, which will include an adjoining 20-storey condo/ hotel tower. The project is to be built on the site of the Market Village Asian shopping centre, which will be demolished.

“We have a few more bridges to cross,†Remington Group president and CEO Rudy Bratty told a news conference. “It will be at least two years (before a construction start).â€

One of those hurdles is raising capital. But Bratty said he is “confident†that financing can be arranged.

Construction cost estimates have not been released.

Designed by Toronto’s Kohn Architects Inc., the centre will be home to more than 360 retail stores, incorporating small-sized shops currently found at Market Village and premium spaces for upscale boutiques and anchor tenants.

The development is said to be the first hybrid building of its kind in North America. A network of pedestrian pathways and private streets will link the retail and residential environments.

The 475,000-square-foot condominium tower will be constructed in the second phase.

The mall will feature a six-acre outdoor public plaza complete with a pond that converts into an ice rink. A permanent stage will accommodate more than 2,000 people for weekly cultural performances in centre court.

The mall has been designed to attract not only local residents of Chinese origin but also visitors from across the greater Toronto area and North America.

The centre will be built in accordance with the Town of Markham’s green development guidelines.

There will be ample bike racks throughout the site, including in the parking garage and on the streets, as well as easy access to the nearby GO Station and York Region Transit terminal.

In an interview, architect Sean Lawrence of Kohn Architects said the “modern, light-filled†centre will be “very†green, meeting or even exceeding LEED standards.

“There is a commitment by The Remington Group and by ourselves to go down that road,†he said. “The town itself is also very receptive to that approach.â€

The centre will feature what reportedly is Canada’s largest geothermal installation, with heating and cooling provided through the floors. Pipes will be drilled 600 feet into the ground.

“Energy savings will be phenomenal,†Lawrence said.

The project is in the early stages of design development.

The team includes mechanical-electrical engineers MCW Consultants Ltd. and structural engineers Jablonsky, Ast and Partners.

Bratty said a decision has not been made on whether a general contractor or construction manager will be retained.

http://dcnonl.com/article/id34302
 

T-Squared

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^ Its just a rendering, so I can imagine that whatever is shown may be tweaked/revised etc etc. But wouldn't it be better if they moved the grey space where the water fountain is to the southwest corner of the site? Many people who bus it (and there are quite a few believe it or not) to P Mall and/or Market Village walk diagionally from Kennedy and Steeles to the malls. Wouldn't be nice if they can walk along a landscaped space?
 

Solaris

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bear in mind though ... the Market Village redevelopment is a separate entity from Pacific Mall (different owners) ... Pacific Mall is not going to give up their surface parking to create a nice landscape path for public transit users

however I do agree it is a good idea, too bad there is little collaberation between the two owners in the redevelopment plans
 

wyliepoon

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^ I believe there is already some coordination between MV and Pacific. The proposed pedestrian bridges linking the two malls, for example. Also, the paved walkway leading from the front of Pacific to Steeles. Johnr on his thread-starting post here showed the glass facade of Remington Centre extending to the front of Pacific. So I think Pacific Mall is very much part of the Remington Centre plans.

I certainly agree with T-Squared about the need for better transportation linkages (and I've made some recommendations earlier in this thread). A better bus stop on Steeles, a bus loop/terminal within the complex for Kennedy buses (TTC and YRT, maybe even Viva), and integration with GO's Milliken station. Also considering the number of people who bike in the area, a massive bike parking facility might not be too much to ask for (hey... it might help with getting that higher LEED rating).
 

wyliepoon

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Today's Sing Tao Daily News real estate supplement has a hefty piece about Remington Centre. Included are some new exterior renderings of the mall, a site plan, and some really great interior shots too.

I might say, if this thing gets built, it would have the best exterior and interior of any mall in the GTA, Asian or mainstream.

http://www.singtao.ca/estate/eg_pdf/2009-07-02/RG-06,07.PDF

http://www.singtao.ca/estate/eg_pdf/2009-07-02/RG-08,09.PDF

http://www.singtao.ca/estate/eg_pdf/2009-07-02/RG-14.PDF

http://www.singtao.ca/estate/eg_pdf/2009-07-02/RG-15.PDF

http://www.singtao.ca/estate/eg_pdf/2009-07-02/RG-10.PDF
 
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alps

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When the signs are in CHINESE ONLY, it is to the exclusion of others...
These mono-ethnic malls are just fueling ethnic and racial tensions in areas such as Markham.. There is nothing stopping anyone from going to a traditional mall, but these malls, with Chinese Only signs, dirty looks to non-Chinese, and discrimination only serve to fuel ethnic tensions..
Heck just the other day, in another Chinese Mall in Markham, I was questioned by a patron asking "What I was doing there?", strongly implying that I was not welcome because I was white!
That is not right..
What "dirty looks to non-Chinese"

That doesn't happen :), stop making an issue where there is none. Plenty of white people shop at these places and if they were glaring at every single one of them...well, it doesn't happen, stop being ludicrous. This project looks great!
 

Silence&Motion

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Can we have at least one discussion of a Chinese-focused development without hearing about all of the poor oppressed white people who must suffer the burden of seeing a few weird signs they can't understand?

Although I would love to see a British-focused mall. Especially if it was something like "Wee Britain" from Arrested Development. Of course, all of the products they sell would be....for British eyes only.
 

alklay

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I might say, if this thing gets built, it would have the best exterior and interior of any mall in the GTA, Asian or mainstream.
The interior looks pretty generic to me. Its certainly a notch below the Fairview Malls of the land, and many notches below Eaton Centre and Yorkdale (and after the cheapening, it will be many more notches below. This mall will not be able to afford to charge the rent, and thus expend the money, of a Yorkdale or Eaton Centre).

And as for the exterior, I think you can safely say that the fancy brickwork surfaces will be concrete (they always end up that way), the public space out front will remain surface parking (due to 'demand') and the building will not look as shiny as the rendering.
 

Epi

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The interior looks pretty generic to me. Its certainly a notch below the Fairview Malls of the land, and many notches below Eaton Centre and Yorkdale (and after the cheapening, it will be many more notches below. This mall will not be able to afford to charge the rent, and thus expend the money, of a Yorkdale or Eaton Centre).

And as for the exterior, I think you can safely say that the fancy brickwork surfaces will be concrete (they always end up that way), the public space out front will remain surface parking (due to 'demand') and the building will not look as shiny as the rendering.
Hard to say from the limited washed out renders. If it's anything like the Aberdeen centre in Vancouver it will be spectacular. But if it's anything closer to Pacific Mall it will be horrendous.

Fairview isn't so great, just very utilitarian. The glass atrium in Yorkdale is quite spectacular though, easily the best mall space in Toronto.
 

BMO

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What "dirty looks to non-Chinese"

That doesn't happen :), stop making an issue where there is none. Plenty of white people shop at these places and if they were glaring at every single one of them...well, it doesn't happen, stop being ludicrous. This project looks great!
No I disagree with this many times i've gone to pacific mall and some store owners would charge me more for items than other people of east-asian background buying the same item, or they would turn on the security camera when I would walk in, dunno if it was because i'm a kid or whatever. I don't mind stores having signs that are written in Chinese, but I think a law should be made that if someone has a store they should put atleast one of Canada's official languages on the sign, like they don't have to be written in english bigger or as big as the chinese or korean etc..version, but they should be there, also not all chinese-canadians speak mandarin or cantonese too :p. most of the stores in pacific mall have english on their signs, but there are a few that don't. btw the signage law would go for everyone not just chinese korean etc.. it would also include those persian stores yonge n finch and other stores tha thave some non english signage.
 
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johnr

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This mall will not be able to afford to charge the rent, and thus expend the money, of a Yorkdale or Eaton Centre).
Pacific Mall rent ($200 per sq. ft.) is already higher than Yorkdale or Eaton Centre.

Pre-sale prices for the units are about $1800 per sq. ft. net and most of the smaller units are already gone. The supermarket unit is being listed for $34 million, making it the most expensive retail condo in NA.

It will be interesting to see what kind of tenants will go into the Luxury Retail and Large Retail units. I believe only national tenants will be able to afford the rent.
 

lesouris

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I don't mind stores having signs that are written in Chinese, but I think a law should be made that if someone has a store they should put atleast one of Canada's official languages on the sign, like they don't have to be written in english bigger or as big as the chinese or korean etc..version, but they should be there, also not all chinese-canadians speak mandarin or cantonese too :p.
While I could see a law that would require a Latin transliteration of languages written in a different alphabet/writing system, I think a full translation would be overblown. Think of all those Italian Ristoranti that would need a rather obvious translation underneath their sign or less translatable names like "El Mocambo" or "Rancho Relaxo."
 

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