Hamilton Parkway Plaza Redevelopment (Stoney Creek) | 68.1m | 20s | SmartCentres | Chamberlain

artyboy123

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A proposed multi-phased mixed-use community in Hamilton. The overall site is 13-acres located at 200 Centennial Pkwy N in Stoney Creek area of Hamilton, Ontario.

The total proposed unit count will be approximately 1100 units. The first phase will have two towers between 20 and 15 storey with retail at grade level.

Here are the proposed project renderings:

121052 - NO BALCONIES_34 - Photo copy.jpeg


121052 - 200 Centennial - Neighbourhood context -GB.jpeg
 
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Wow were loosing a goodwill and jysk buildings plus a dollar store plus other buildings for this condo development. I guess maybe they'll relocate underneath on the first floor lol!
 
I feel like a new N-S street here is essential; the East-West Block here is almost 240M long!

Too few streets makes for fewer bigger and more hostile streets, it also makes it more difficult to get around a pedestrian.

I've drawn a line across the site to reflect an approximate location for a new road, I have drawn it through an already developed parcel north of the plaza, which I am aware is not part of this development.

However, I feel that needs to be a condition to create a useful street, rather than a dead end.

1647903745085.png


I'd also like to see a context plan for a full-build out of the plaza site, the associated street grid, retention of a supermarket, but otherwise endeavouring to create 'main street' retail here.
 
As it stands, I find it to be a really miserable, insipid proposal.


The first issue, and one of the biggest, is that they're not redeveloping the whole property, and they don't have any plans for it. Ostensibly, this is due to leases with long-term (thirty to forty years, I believe) extension options and no-redevelopment clauses, on the larger portion of the site. So, 65% or so of the site isn't going to be developed any time soon.

While I can respect that there are contractual concerns for SmartCentres, it also feels like a cop-out. I would imagine a corporation the likes of SmartCentres would be able to apply at least some pressure on the problematic lessees, and to hopefully come to an agreement with them so that they could remain open during the initial phases, and then be moved into the ground floor of one of the new buildings. While I don't have any insider knowledge, I haven't heard anything that would lead me to believe SmartCentres has indeed pursued this avenue.

However, if they do (or if they did) seek such a deal, but can't come to an agreement, they should at least present an ultimate build-out plan, even if in forty years, or whenever the rest of the complex can be built on, that plan is totally redone.


Second, the parking is an issue — there's too much! 1150 residential units, 844 residential parking spaces. I don't blame the applicant for this; they're just complying with the City's required parking ratios. This site is located right between the future Confederation GO Station, and the eastern terminus of the Hamilton LRT, Eastgate Square, and either is less than a ten minute walk from this site. I would imagine both will be done, or nearly done, by the time any occupancy commences. Even if not, the 2 Barton bus route is frequent, the 10 B-Line express bus is already running, and there are some other smaller routes both outside this development, and at Eastgate Square terminal.


Third, the architecture, massing, and design all leave something to be desired.

One of the big drivers of the design problem is the aforementioned parking. It's provided entirely above-ground, in a six storey parking structure. Mercifully, they are at least going to shield (most of) the parking from view with residential units. Believe it or not, there are projects in Downtown Hamilton that aren't even doing this. Unfortunately, this above-grade parking means that the podiums are invariably massive.

As well, the towers themselves are big huge slab floorplates, in order to comply with the local secondary plan with regard to maximum building height of 20 storeys. Each is over 1100 square metres, I believe. This was noted at the Design Review Panel for this project, with one panelist suggesting that thinner point towers be used, with increased height instead; several others agreed with this suggestion. (At least one said the whole project needs to go back to the drawing board, a suggestion I'm inclined to agree with, even if I have some skepticism of our DRP.)

The ground floor is not good either. There is essentially no retail facing Centennial Parkway, which is a mistake. I'm not under the illusion that it will ever become a pedestrian paradise, but there is a lot of room for improvement. There's a fair few townhomes, which are fine, but the landscape space between this development and the existing townhouse development to the south strikes me as a missed opportunity, likely only there in order to meet angular planes or such.

The retail that is included is alright, but has a fair few misses. None of the spaces are big enough for so much as a Shoppers Drug Mart, let alone a grocery store. As well, they're really set up in most suburban manner. Lots of grass in front of them, no room for patios or public space, thin sidewalks, right on the internal 'road' of the plaza.

1647912571685.png


To @Northern Light's point about the need for a new street running north-south, I agree. I would also add that they've missed a big opportunity to extend and connect the existing Barlake Avenue to Eastgate Court, near the bottom of the site. Pursuing this extension would provide a terminus for a new north-south road, and also create a natural southern development block that would be highly appropriate for small midrises (four to six storeys, maybe) that would transition to the existing townhomes. For good measure, I'd also suggest a second north-south road at the very east edge of the site, again terminating at the Barlake extension. The next through road running north-south up to Barton is Lake Avenue!

1647913068254.png


I think that's everything... Ultimately, it's a very very very flawed and unambitious plan, that I very much hope sees a significant (frankly, total) overhaul.

If anyone's interested in reading more about this application or watching the DRP for it, here are the links:


 
As it stands, I find it to be a really miserable, insipid proposal.


The first issue, and one of the biggest, is that they're not redeveloping the whole property, and they don't have any plans for it. Ostensibly, this is due to leases with long-term (thirty to forty years, I believe) extension options and no-redevelopment clauses, on the larger portion of the site. So, 65% or so of the site isn't going to be developed any time soon.

While I can respect that there are contractual concerns for SmartCentres, it also feels like a cop-out. I would imagine a corporation the likes of SmartCentres would be able to apply at least some pressure on the problematic lessees, and to hopefully come to an agreement with them so that they could remain open during the initial phases, and then be moved into the ground floor of one of the new buildings. While I don't have any insider knowledge, I haven't heard anything that would lead me to believe SmartCentres has indeed pursued this avenue.

However, if they do (or if they did) seek such a deal, but can't come to an agreement, they should at least present an ultimate build-out plan, even if in forty years, or whenever the rest of the complex can be built on, that plan is totally redone.


Second, the parking is an issue — there's too much! 1150 residential units, 844 residential parking spaces. I don't blame the applicant for this; they're just complying with the City's required parking ratios. This site is located right between the future Confederation GO Station, and the eastern terminus of the Hamilton LRT, Eastgate Square, and either is less than a ten minute walk from this site. I would imagine both will be done, or nearly done, by the time any occupancy commences. Even if not, the 2 Barton bus route is frequent, the 10 B-Line express bus is already running, and there are some other smaller routes both outside this development, and at Eastgate Square terminal.


Third, the architecture, massing, and design all leave something to be desired.

One of the big drivers of the design problem is the aforementioned parking. It's provided entirely above-ground, in a six storey parking structure. Mercifully, they are at least going to shield (most of) the parking from view with residential units. Believe it or not, there are projects in Downtown Hamilton that aren't even doing this. Unfortunately, this above-grade parking means that the podiums are invariably massive.

As well, the towers themselves are big huge slab floorplates, in order to comply with the local secondary plan with regard to maximum building height of 20 storeys. Each is over 1100 square metres, I believe. This was noted at the Design Review Panel for this project, with one panelist suggesting that thinner point towers be used, with increased height instead; several others agreed with this suggestion. (At least one said the whole project needs to go back to the drawing board, a suggestion I'm inclined to agree with, even if I have some skepticism of our DRP.)

The ground floor is not good either. There is essentially no retail facing Centennial Parkway, which is a mistake. I'm not under the illusion that it will ever become a pedestrian paradise, but there is a lot of room for improvement. There's a fair few townhomes, which are fine, but the landscape space between this development and the existing townhouse development to the south strikes me as a missed opportunity, likely only there in order to meet angular planes or such.

The retail that is included is alright, but has a fair few misses. None of the spaces are big enough for so much as a Shoppers Drug Mart, let alone a grocery store. As well, they're really set up in most suburban manner. Lots of grass in front of them, no room for patios or public space, thin sidewalks, right on the internal 'road' of the plaza.

View attachment 386950

To @Northern Light's point about the need for a new street running north-south, I agree. I would also add that they've missed a big opportunity to extend and connect the existing Barlake Avenue to Eastgate Court, near the bottom of the site. Pursuing this extension would provide a terminus for a new north-south road, and also create a natural southern development block that would be highly appropriate for small midrises (four to six storeys, maybe) that would transition to the existing townhomes. For good measure, I'd also suggest a second north-south road at the very east edge of the site, again terminating at the Barlake extension. The next through road running north-south up to Barton is Lake Avenue!

View attachment 386953

I think that's everything... Ultimately, it's a very very very flawed and unambitious plan, that I very much hope sees a significant (frankly, total) overhaul.

If anyone's interested in reading more about this application or watching the DRP for it, here are the links:


I agree with almost every single word you said in your analysis, so there's really not much for me to add.

This plan (despite the increased density proposed) is severely flawed.
 

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