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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design) | ?m | ?s

gweed123

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I think the station designs will wind up looking a lot like what Ottawa's Confederation Line got. The stations went through the value engineering process as part of the DBFOM contract. They're nothing spectacular, but they're certainly not bland boxes either. Common materials and design elements, with each station catered to the specific site.
 

44 North

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This CP Truss Bridge over the Elbow River in Calgary was built over the last couple years. Corten steel is amazing.

I guess I was more wondering if there's a slightly more 'modern' take on a truss design. Tho perhaps such a thing would no longer be truss, and may not really exist. I like corten in certain instances. Not so much in what you're showing. Just looks like rusty old bridge.

So with this Gerrard station I'm still wrapping my head around it. There's a sizable distance to cross diagonally over an intersection with no opportunity for centre support. About 60m. However if the guideway were raised several metres would a box girder work? Just looks a bit off with the station within such a bridge.
 

TransitBart

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I guess I was more wondering if there's a slightly more 'modern' take on a truss design. Tho perhaps such a thing would no longer be truss, and may not really exist. I like corten in certain instances. Not so much in what you're showing. Just looks like rusty old bridge.

So with this Gerrard station I'm still wrapping my head around it. There's a sizable distance to cross diagonally over an intersection with no opportunity for centre support. About 60m. However if the guideway were raised several metres would a box girder work? Just looks a bit off with the station within such a bridge.
You know there are two bridges, no?
 

44 North

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You know there are two bridges, no?

No it's one. That's what threw me off. Existing bridge is really two bridges over two streets. This new one at first glance is a simple expansion off these..Makes sense. However since it has to carry over the whole intersection it's really its own separate, single bridge with no central support. Hence why it's a massive truss structure.
 

toronto647

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Tweet by Liberal Candidate Del Luca confirming he won't cancel the OL and other funded transit projects. Seems like the Ontario Line is safe as it is extremely unlikely the NDP win majority in the upcoming election. Fords napkin paper drawing what many critics called it will actually be built and increase transit by 50%. Who in the world would have thought Ford out of all will be able to pull this off. (coming from a lifelong Liberal)

 

toronto647

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I was referring to all the 4 priority projects in my post OL/YNSE/SSE/EGWLRT will increase the total by approximately 50%. But for arguments sake. A big win for Ford. No one was able to deliver a relief line in over 100 years and Ford has managed it. Kudos well deserved to him and he deserves a victory lap albeit the plans are not perfect by any measure but still something rather than waiting another 10-20 years.
 

allengeorge

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Fords napkin paper drawing what many critics called it will actually be built and increase transit by 50%. Who in the world would have thought Ford out of all will be able to pull this off. (coming from a lifelong Liberal)
I have been impressed by his government’s initial focus on transit (though lately they seem to have shifted to roads and highways). My sense was that the Liberals were more intent on the process - no matter how long that took - than delivering in a timely manner. For these projects the Ford government has put delivery over process, and I appreciate that. I understand that this is a double-edged sword: I’m happy wrt transit, but not at all when it comes to the environment, highways, the Greenbelt…
 

crs1026

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I have been impressed by his government’s initial focus on transit (though lately they seem to have shifted to roads and highways). My sense was that the Liberals were more intent on the process - no matter how long that took - than delivering in a timely manner. For these projects the Ford government has put delivery over process, and I appreciate that. I understand that this is a double-edged sword: I’m happy wrt transit, but not at all when it comes to the environment, highways, the Greenbelt…

These are my feelings also. I would never have predicted that Ford would perform this well on the transit file.

The GTA is going to end up with a great transit network. I'm just not sure how liveable it will be, considering the lack of concern about development, sprawl, active transportation, etc.

I doubt Ford is going to push very hard on the yellow-belt issue, it's one where (like transit) the right provincial push would get the City off top dead centre and moving forward. Instead, we seem destined to just let developers loose without restraint on specific sites close to transit, while not making best use of the entire city for a denser but more liveable city overall. I would have welcomed a provincial override on City Council here.

I would still have preferred that the Ontario Line were designed and built as a vanilla TTC subway, because it's best known, has proven performance parameters, and assures capacity. There are plenty of other good technologies and vehicle choices out there, so maybe I'm being too cautious.... but I can't help being suspicious that ML people are selling something they either can't deliver or won't do what we need done. Time will tell.

- Paul
 

denfromoakvillemilton

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These are my feelings also. I would never have predicted that Ford would perform this well on the transit file.

The GTA is going to end up with a great transit network. I'm just not sure how liveable it will be, considering the lack of concern about development, sprawl, active transportation, etc.

I doubt Ford is going to push very hard on the yellow-belt issue, it's one where (like transit) the right provincial push would get the City off top dead centre and moving forward. Instead, we seem destined to just let developers loose without restraint on specific sites close to transit, while not making best use of the entire city for a denser but more liveable city overall. I would have welcomed a provincial override on City Council here.

I would still have preferred that the Ontario Line were designed and built as a vanilla TTC subway, because it's best known, has proven performance parameters, and assures capacity. There are plenty of other good technologies and vehicle choices out there, so maybe I'm being too cautious.... but I can't help being suspicious that ML people are selling something they either can't deliver or won't do what we need done. Time will tell.

- Paul
This is the underlying issue with the OL. They could have kept the TTC route and still have gone to Exhibition/Liberty Village, for example.
 

innsertnamehere

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These are my feelings also. I would never have predicted that Ford would perform this well on the transit file.

The GTA is going to end up with a great transit network. I'm just not sure how liveable it will be, considering the lack of concern about development, sprawl, active transportation, etc.

I doubt Ford is going to push very hard on the yellow-belt issue, it's one where (like transit) the right provincial push would get the City off top dead centre and moving forward. Instead, we seem destined to just let developers loose without restraint on specific sites close to transit, while not making best use of the entire city for a denser but more liveable city overall. I would have welcomed a provincial override on City Council here.

I would still have preferred that the Ontario Line were designed and built as a vanilla TTC subway, because it's best known, has proven performance parameters, and assures capacity. There are plenty of other good technologies and vehicle choices out there, so maybe I'm being too cautious.... but I can't help being suspicious that ML people are selling something they either can't deliver or won't do what we need done. Time will tell.

- Paul
Just wait for the PC's housing plan to drop, the rumours I'm hearing are some pretty extreme zoning-busting measures for intensification.

Ford's Land Use policies have generally been to loosen up development regulations across the board, for every policy he's implemented to make greenfield development easier, he's implemented at least one other policy making it easier for intensification. It's not that black and white.

Also, the media has created a hyper focus around the 413, but Ford's position has been the same on that one since 2018. His focus hasn't shifted to roads later in the term, it's just that it's become a more heightened political tool since. His support of it in 2018 barely made headlines at the time.
 

W. K. Lis

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I'm at the point of just saying, "Just build something!"

From link.

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1911 proposal for a streetcar subway under Queen Street

In 1944, the TTC produced its plan “Rapid Transit for Toronto” calling for a full Yonge subway and a Queen Street streetcar subway. These plans were approved by the Board of Control and by the electorate in a referendum on January 1, 1946. The Yonge subway had priority and detailed engineering design was followed by construction with completion in 1954. An east-west station structure was provided under Queen station in anticipation of a future Queen Street streetcar subway, which never materialized.

An extract from 1944 TTC Rapid Transit Proposals for a Queen Street Route:

Plans and estimates of cost have been made covering two-track subway and open cut sections along Queen Street to be operated for a number of years as a trunk line for streetcar routes extending east, northeast, west and northwest beyond its portals. The open cut sections will be west of University Avenue and east of Church Street in the rear of the Queen Street frontage, connected by a subway under Queen Street between University Avenue and Church Street.

These open cut sections will extend through depreciated-value areas where there will be a pronounced economy in acquiring a private right-of-way a short distance north of Queen Street. The general features of the project conform to those described above for the subway on Yonge Street, the principal variation being the adoption of elevated construction across the Don River.

It is estimated that the maximum traffic on the Queen Street route, about 9,000 passengers per hour, could be carried with a combination of single cars and two-car trains operating on a headway of about 60 seconds, at speeds of about 15 m.p.h. (24 km/h) including stops. Capacity of this route, operated with trolley cars, will provide for substantial future increases in traffic, but with little sacrifice in speed. The Queen Street route, therefore, initially at least is being planned for streetcar operation.

An extension will be built in the west, partly in subway and partly in open cut, extending through Trinity Park to a connection with existing streetcar tracks on Dundas Street, a short distance east of Crawford Street. A similar extension will be made in the east along a right-of-way to be acquired adjacent to and just west of the Canadian National Railway to a connection with existing streetcar tracks at Gerrard Street and Carlaw Avenue.

This arrangement will result in benefit to every section of the east and west ends of the city. In the east, for example, will be routed not only Queen Street and Kingston Road cars. Special new direct routes from the Danforth districts, by which car riders can reach the downtown section, will be established instead of the present crosstown and transfer connections.

Similarly, in the west end, in addition to Queen cars and Dundas cars, other special new routes from the Dovercourt area, High Park and Runnymede districts will use the rapid transit line to get the greatest possible benefit of the new facilities.

The grades and alignments of both of these extensions will be such as to permit subsequent rapid transit extensions along Queen Street beyond the ends of the initial structures. The total length of route between connection to the Dundas Street tracks near Crawford Street to a connection to the tracks at Gerrard Street and Carlaw Avenue is 4.5 miles (7 km).

Subway structures are planned with sufficient vertical clearance to permit operation of cars using overhead trolleys.
Construction of stations 500 feet long, of which 300 feet will be finished and utilized initially, is advocated. Stations are planned at the following locations along Queen Street:​
  • Trinity Park
  • Bathurst
  • Spadina
  • Grange
  • York
  • City Hall
  • Yonge
  • Church
  • Sherbourne
  • Parliament
  • Broadview
Public transportation routes are intersected at all these stations except at Trinity Park and Grange. These two stations will provide rapid transit transportation for important local centres. Terminal loops are proposed at each side of the downtown district as follows:

One passing under Queen Street subway west of University Avenue to provide for turning back extra service between the east end and the downtown district and,

One passing under the Queen Street subway just west of Church Street for turning back extra service between the west end and the downtown district.

This track layout will permit through route operation between the east and west sides of the city, and also the operation of such services from the outlying areas to the downtown district as may be desirable from the viewpoint of efficient operation.

An additional station may be built near the Don River providing access to the Don River Station for passengers from both the Canadian National and the Canadian Pacific Railways, if proved desirable by further studies.
The preliminary estimate of cost for this project is as follows:​
Structure $11,800,000
Off-street Rights-of-way $5,200,000
Fixed Equipment $2,300,000
TOTAL $19,300,000
The plan above outlined for rapid transit on the Queen Street route is considered adequate for present necessities and is, of course, much more economical than subway construction throughout. It has been designed so that it can be readily modified, either in the light of future developments or having regard to other considerations.

For example, recent proposals of the City Planning Board provide for two major housing projects immediately north of Queen Street, one on the east and one on the west side of the city. Provisions can easily be made so that the Commission’s rapid transit proposals will not in any way affect these projects to their detriment.

At this time, subway financing was regarded as strictly a TTC responsibility using surplus funds generated during World War II, limited debenture issues and the fare box. The increasing cost of transit operation and decreasing patronage as automobiles became available placed transit financing in a difficult position, limiting the funds available for subway construction. When the City of Toronto became part of Metropolitan Toronto, the TTC’s responsibilities expanded accordingly and after considerable study, the first east-west subway was built on Bloor-Danforth. Bloor-Danforth was also a precedent-setting subway, initiating a cost-sharing formula between Metro and the TTC. A modest Provincial cost contribution was also received under the Highway Improvement Act.

The decision to build the first east-west subway along Bloor-Danforth may appear to have doomed any hope of a Queen Street subway, the two streets being only one and a quarter miles (2 kilometres) apart. However, in January 1960, the Metropolitan Toronto Planning Board issued the ‘Draft Official Plan of the Metropolitan Toronto Planning Area” proposing a Queen subway form Sunnyside to Greenwood and a northern extension along Greenwood to O’Connor Drive, connecting with the Bloor-Danforth subway at Greenwood or Donlands station. In 1964, TTC Vice-Chairman Walton, resolved that the Commission reconsider placing the Queen streetcar service underground between Sherbourne and McCaul Streets. That same year, the City Commissioner for Public Works discussed a joint grade-separated facility parallel to or under Queen Street for streetcars and vehicular traffic. This lead to questions on whether a Queen Street facility or the North Yonge subway extension should have priority, and a decision was made in favour of the latter.
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