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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design) | ?m | ?s

Rainforest

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Well I mean we are all cramming it in there. IF the OL had stuck to the DRL route, no one would complain. This is MX's idea to go through the Lakeshore east train route. This is the result.

The old DRL route was better, no doubt. It would allow for larger DRL trains, as well as leave valuable space in the Lakeshore East corridor for more GO trains.

That said - if we are talking specifically about the noise complains of the Leslieville residents, it is fair to say that they can achieve a better overall outcome by asking for the GO trains upgrade from diesel to electric or to bi-mode, than by tweaking the subway route.
 

generalcanada

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The old DRL route was better, no doubt. It would allow for larger DRL trains, as well as leave valuable space in the Lakeshore East corridor for more GO trains.

That said - if we are talking specifically about the noise complains of the Leslieville residents, it is fair to say that they can achieve a better overall outcome by asking for the GO trains upgrade from diesel to electric or to bi-mode, than by tweaking the subway route.
and here we go again back to people thinking the drl was better.

i was too until i realized how much bigger and better it actually was.

- for the same price its almost twice as long going up to eglinton.
- automated light metro system which has similar capacity to the toronto line 1
- easy connections with queen and gerrard streetcars
- exhibition station (union station west)

now as for the Go trains, im not sure people realize that the service to bowmanville cant be anything more than 30 minute service even at peak. hell are they even doing off peak service?
 

allengeorge

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That's just it though, when it comes to the Relief Line Toronto wasn't ducking hard decisions at all. It made the hard decisions and approved the alignment.
I also want to follow up on this. I agree with @innsertnamehere that Toronto actually ducked the hard decisions. They constructed an alignment that was quite expensive to appease a few people. For all its faults the OL is trying to be smarter in terms of using the assets and the space we have instead of “tunnel everything - as deep as we can” to appease the loudest voices.
 

W. K. Lis

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and here we go again back to people thinking the drl was better.

i was too until i realized how much bigger and better it actually was.

- for the same price its almost twice as long going up to eglinton.
- automated light metro system which has similar capacity to the toronto line 1
- easy connections with queen and gerrard streetcars
- exhibition station (union station west)

now as for the Go trains, im not sure people realize that the service to bowmanville cant be anything more than 30 minute service even at peak. hell are they even doing off peak service?
Any new underground electric railway would be automated, whether they be light rail, medium rail, or heavy rail.
 

rbt

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Toronto didn't make hard decisions on it though - it decided to spend a billion dollars to avoid pissing off a handful of homeowners in Leslieville, and resulted in a much more expensive project which had worse final outcomes.

Not strictly true. During the 2015 EA process the city asked Metrolinx if they could consider using some of their corridor as an option and got a definitive NO. So that option was immediately rejected as unworkable.

4 years worth of headache and delays could have been avoided if Metrolinx wasn't suddenly inspired* to reverse that decision, or rather, allowed the TTC to consider it in the first place.

* A much much better idea of the resources GO Expansion would require likely lead to the reversal.
 
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MisterF

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I also want to follow up on this. I agree with @innsertnamehere that Toronto actually ducked the hard decisions. They constructed an alignment that was quite expensive to appease a few people. For all its faults the OL is trying to be smarter in terms of using the assets and the space we have instead of “tunnel everything - as deep as we can” to appease the loudest voices.
Except that "tunnel everything as deep as we can" is exactly the approach that the province is taking with the Yonge extension to appease a few people. And they and the city seem to agree on the unnecessarily tunnelling of the Eglinton west extension. If making the hard decisions means standing up to NIMBYs and approving a cheaper alignment to get transit built, then the province is just as guilty of ducking the hard decisions as the city is.
 

allengeorge

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Except that "tunnel everything as deep as we can" is exactly the approach that the province is taking with the Yonge extension to appease a few people.
Yes. And I pointed out here in my first response to the article:
Also, people have to feel like the same criteria are being applied everywhere;
that people have to feel like the same decision-making criteria are applied everywhere.

This has routinely been what’s frustrated people (including me) about how Metrolinx/the province has approached building their priority projects. Even on this board you’ll find people who support grade separation on Eglinton, but would have strongly preferred a cheaper elevated approach as opposed to the vastly more expensive tunneled one the province/Metrolinx took. I have the same problem with the building of the Royal Orchard station. I cannot defend this inconsistency.
 

nfitz

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I also want to follow up on this. I agree with @innsertnamehere that Toronto actually ducked the hard decisions. They constructed an alignment that was quite expensive to appease a few people. For all its faults the OL is trying to be smarter in terms of using the assets and the space we have instead of “tunnel everything - as deep as we can” to appease the loudest voices.
That argument holds up fine, until you look at the proposed Metrolinx Line 2 Lawrence East station which may be even deeper than the proposed DRL Gerrard Station - for little reason at all.

And how isn't the Eglinton West $hit$how not simply for appeasement?
 

Rainforest

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and here we go again back to people thinking the drl was better.

i was too until i realized how much bigger and better it actually was.

- for the same price its almost twice as long going up to eglinton.
- automated light metro system which has similar capacity to the toronto line 1
- easy connections with queen and gerrard streetcars
- exhibition station (union station west)

now as for the Go trains, im not sure people realize that the service to bowmanville cant be anything more than 30 minute service even at peak. hell are they even doing off peak service?

I think, not only Bowmanville, but the northern end of the Stouffville line as well. They aren't electrifying Stouffville to the end, are they? So, doing something with the diesels and their noise is probably worth the effort.

Re. DRL vs OL:
- DRL could be automated, too.
- The ultimate capacity cannot be same if the stations and trains are substantially smaller.
- I didn't see any report that says the core portion of OL (University to Danforth) is going to be half the price on per-km basis compared to DRL. And if that's the case, it would be very surprising. OL has substantial tunnel sections through downtown and approaching Danforth. The portals add some to the cost. The route is slightly longer because it diverts to the south before turning north. Overall, I can believe that the core part of OL will be 15% or 20% cheaper than DRL, but it is hard to believe that the difference can reach 50%.
- The Danforth to Eglinton section is very useful, but it could be built as Phase 2, and in any case it would be cheaper per-km than the DRL's downtown tunnel.
- The Exhibition station, and the easier connections to some streetcar lines, are all nice-to-haves. But they are not essential, and are not worth creating a future situation where OL becomes overloaded, while DRL would still be within capacity.

The train has left the station, and there is no going back from OL to DRL. But, at least, let's have realistic expectations regarding the OL.
 

Ciarlandini

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Going to probably cross post this into the west extension thread- this Metrolinx ad had a rather peculiar transit map included in it with the orientation of the Ontario line, and something that looks to run along St. Clair, and something along Lawrence. Is anyone able to make sense of this? Could be just a random arrangement of lines as well.
04EAA628-3841-4D22-8DD6-18BD45CA8112.jpeg
 

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