Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

gibsonm said:
Most of the CNE buildings are important architectural landmarks, Beaux-Arts or Futurist, for example. I don’t want to see those buildings removed. Much can be done to integrate it and connect it to the rest of the city.

A gondola on the CNE grounds is perfectly reasonable and wouldn’t disrupt air traffic, but don’t worry, you won’t get them, nor will you get much of interest. You will get more rows of non-descript future St. Jamestowns. Nothing of interest will be built because the city doesn’t care enough and will just turn it over to real estate. Boring and predictable.
Click to expand...
I agree with the first part of your post. But you should know that the city DOES care about Exhibition Place and that is why it's making a master plan right now to realize its full potential.
 
daniel_kryz said:
I agree with the first part of your post. But you should know that the city DOES care about Exhibition Place and that is why it's making a master plan right now to realize its full potential.
Click to expand...
The city is trying to make sure the neighbourhood character is not displaced by maintaining its status as a bunch of parking lots, used for two weeks of the year.
 
evandyk said:
The city is trying to make sure the neighbourhood character is not displaced by maintaining its status as a bunch of parking lots, used for two weeks of the year.
Click to expand...
If it was just two weeks a year, they would have demolished the whole place and sold it for condos. Many of the buildings are rented out for conventions and trade shows through out the year. Some private events and others public build specific to a targeted audience so you might not see or hear about it.

It's definitely not a place people would randomly go and hang out. They need to turn the place into a park or an urban plaza to get people there but if you take away the parking lots, those conventions that depend on it would not approve.
 
Steve X said:
If it was just two weeks a year, they would have demolished the whole place and sold it for condos. Many of the buildings are rented out for conventions and trade shows through out the year. Some private events and others public build specific to a targeted audience so you might not see or hear about it.

It's definitely not a place people would randomly go and hang out. They need to turn the place into a park or an urban plaza to get people there but if you take away the parking lots, those conventions that depend on it would not approve.
Click to expand...
I'm sure those events can find other facilities in the region.
 
Last edited:
Exhibition Place, along with the surrounding waterfront and Ontario Place, could easily be transformed into a grand urban park. Just look at what surrounds Exhibition Place:
  • To the north we have Liberty Village on the other side of the Gardiner. This would ensure that the urban park would be heavily used year round.
  • Ontario Line and RER, which would funnel people into the park from across the region
  • The revitalized Queens Quay West is literally just 350 metres away from Coronation Park (I'm taking the liberty of assuming that Coronation Park would be included in any Exhibition Place revitalization, as it should).
  • Fort York is directly across the street, on the east side of Strachan.
  • To the west we have the continued waterfront trail, which could be designed holistically to integrate Exhibition Place with High Park
  • To the south is Ontario Place.
There is absolutely no excuse for keeping Exhibition Place in its current state. It's an incredible urban asset, and we're here just squandering it away. This is not remotely acceptable for any city that wants to fashion itself as "world class".

John Tory really should've proposed a redevelopment of Exhibition Place, rather than pursuing his ill informed Rail Deck Park. It would've been a fraction of the cost, while delivering far grander results.

As a side note, I'm amazed that Exhibition Place is literally just minutes away from Queens Quay West by foot. I'm in the Queens Quay area a lot, but Exhibiton Place is so disconnected from the broader urban fabric that it feels like I might as well be walking to Brampton...

Which takes us right back to why we're having this gondola discussion in the first place: Exhibition Place is just so fundamental hostile to pedestrians that the only way to comfortably circumnavigate it is with expensive technical solutions. It's only a 500 metre walk from Exhibition GO to Ontario Place. We shouldn't need a gondola to travel there. What we need is an Exhibition Place that is not designed to be actively hostile to pedestrians.
 
Last edited:
It always amuses me that whenever the idea of a gondola in Toronto is brought up someone inevitably questions their feasibility in bad weather. It's a technology that dominates ski resorts and operates daily in high alpine, windswept terrain all over the world. They're specifically designed for bad weather. Questioning a gondola's feasibility because it might get windy is like questioning if boats are a good idea because they might encounter water.
 
gibsonm said:
Most of the CNE buildings are important architectural landmarks, Beaux-Arts or Futurist, for example. I don’t want to see those buildings removed. Much can be done to integrate it and connect it to the rest of the city.
Click to expand...
My issue with these buildings is that they are so large that repurposing them is near impossible. The Enercare Centre itself could fit the BMO Field, Air Canada Centre and SkyDome within its footprint, and there would still be plenty of room to spare. It has a perimeter of nearly 2 kilometres! I'd wager that Enercare Centre has a bigger ground-level footprint than any other building in Old Toronto. The facility is a massive bunker, that makes accessing Exhibition Place by foot tremendously difficult. It's certainly a facility that was designed with automobiles, not people, in mind.

I understand the desire for historical preservation, but I cannot see any proper revitiaziation of Exhibition Place keeping this building intact. Now I don't even know if this building is considered architecturally significant (it was built only 24 years ago), but if it is, I think the best option would be to demolish most of the building to make Exhibition Place more pedestrian accessible, while retaining the most significant parts for historical preservation.

Also, when I used to work at Exhibition, this building was virtually empty 99% of the time, which is no surprise given its immense size. It's a massively under-utilized facility.

I could see us keeping all the other buildings, but something needs to be done about the Enercare building. It is completely out of place in an urban core
 
Last edited:
TheTigerMaster said:
My issue with these buildings is that they are so large that repurposing them is near impossible. The Enercare Centre itself could fit the BMO Field, Air Canada Centre and SkyDome within its footprint, and there would still be plenty of room to spare. It has a perimeter of nearly 2 kilometres! I'd wager that Enercare Centre has a bigger ground-level footprint than any other building in Old Toronto. The facility is a massive bunker, that makes accessing Exhibition Place by foot tremendously difficult. It's certainly a facility that was designed with automobiles, not people, in mind.

I understand the desire for historical preservation, but I cannot see any proper revitiaziation of Exhibition Place keeping this building intact. Now I don't even know if this building is considered architecturally significant (it was built only 24 years ago), but if it is, I think the best option would be to demolish most of the building to make Exhibition Place more pedestrian accessible, while retaining the most significant parts for historical preservation.

Also, when I used to work at Exhibition, this building was virtually empty 99% of the time, which is no surprise given its immense size. It's a massively under-utilized facility.

I could see us keeping all the other buildings, but something needs to be done about the Enercare building. It is completely out of place in an urban core
Click to expand...
I agree that we've gotten off topic, but getting back to the CNE as a transit hub like East Harbour, it's important to maximize the pedestrian/commuter experience. Parking should be largely underground, or failing that, in multi-level garages that minimize footprint. I'm fine with the Enercare Centre as a convention centre. Many events like the One of a Kind Craft Show come through the CNE and I think we need to be able to repurpose the grounds like the pitch of a stadium: this month it's full of rides/games for the Ex, this month it's a giant maze and farmer's market, etc. All year, however, the grounds should be walkable and beautiful, and they should feel like a natural spur of the rest of the city, linking neighbourhoods. Gondolas are a creative transportation connection that reinforce the historic identity of the CNE. We need to really animate those grounds year-round and give people good reasons to visit. Recreation is one major reason; providing important connections in the transit network is another.
 
Exhibition Place is what remains of the original "military reservation" created by Lieutenant-Governor Simcoe, roughly bordered by today's Dufferin Street, Queen Street, Peter Street and the lakeshore. It was also the grounds of "New Fort York", of which the Stanley Barracks is all that remains. The Stanley Barracks is today next door to Hotel X. Doubt any of today's soldiers would be assigned to Hotel X, unless they are high ranking officers.
 
kamira51 said:
I don't understand why they won't expand the streetcar network to cover more of the City.
Click to expand...
The automobile god's disciples at city hall don't want to offend their golden idols.
businessman-kneeling-in-front-of-a-car-offering-flowers_1869060.png
From link.
 
evandyk said:
The city is trying to make sure the neighbourhood character is not displaced by maintaining its status as a bunch of parking lots, used for two weeks of the year.
Click to expand...
Do you have a source or reference for that?

They've slowly been reducing the amount of parking available for years, with new structures, etc.
 
daniel_kryz said:
I agree with the first part of your post. But you should know that the city DOES care about Exhibition Place and that is why it's making a master plan right now to realize its full potential.
Click to expand...

evandyk said:
The city is trying to make sure the neighbourhood character is not displaced by maintaining its status as a bunch of parking lots, used for two weeks of the year.
Click to expand...

evandyk said:
The city is trying to make sure the neighbourhood character is not displaced by maintaining its status as a bunch of parking lots, used for two weeks of the year.
Click to expand...

nfitz said:
Do you have a source or reference for that?

They've slowly been reducing the amount of parking available for years, with new structures, etc.
Click to expand...
I for one would hope that the city would have grander ambitions than slowly reducing the amount of parking... for years. I couldn't name a more "Toronto" approach to this problem 😅
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top