Ontario Line | ?m | ?s

[aquateam]

How in the planet did Montreal get such a complex project into contracts being awarded so soon while it takes Metrolinx ions to get a simple light-rail line to the same point. I wont even mention the TTC here since we all know it takes them forever to do anything.

By skipping/ignoring the environmental assessments and public consultations. Like how things used to be built.

(Okay I am exaggerating a bit, there were public consultations but the changes made were mostly cosmetic/small in scope, more like presentations than consultations)

Is this just conjecture, or are you speaking from some amount of knowledge?

This is steveintoronto ... so conjecture

Montreal Solution.... the REM plans and the Pink Line compromise... could be built instead.

Whereby only southern portion of REM being built (to downtown) and that it branches into the Pink Line and the Pink Line that goes into Lachine can be extended to the airport.

So you mean going from this:

To this?

That would actually work really well. You avoid the dumb tunneling under the airport, all the new branch would serve dense areas on the CP ROW, you balance out the branches (instead of 3:1 it's now 2:2). Now you're tunnelling where it makes sense (under Rene-Levesque downtown) instead of under the airport.

The only problem is that it is a very tight curve to go from McGill college onto Rene Levesque, under buildings with the deepest foundations in Montreal.

 

[WislaHD]

I think this is getting quite off topic discussing so much about Montreal’s transit. Maybe create a thread just for comparing different cities’ transit systems?

We used to have a Toronto vs Montreal thread back in the day, I believe.

But still, this discussion on the Montreal Pink Line is fascinating to me. I wish that the actual Pink Line thread was active with discussion, instead.

 

[MisterF]

Montreal Metro
System length 69.2 km

Toronto Subway
System length 68.3 km

Its barely longer. In December Toronto's system will be longer by 7km with the opening of the Spadina Extension.

Their ridership is more, but barely so.

Montreal Metro
Annual ridership 356,096,000

Toronto Subway
Annual ridership 302,806,300

By 2021, they would add the 19-kilometre Eglinton Crosstown LRT (not counting the Eglinton West portion in Etobicoke). By 2022, they would also add the 11-kilometre light rail transit line that will run on Finch Avenue West.

This just backs up my point. Toronto got a 12 year head start on Montreal with its subway and is now a significantly larger city. It shouldn't even be close, yet Montreal caught up.

Finch won't be rapid transit, at least not in the same sense as the subway or metro. I'll give you the grade separated sections of Eglinton though.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

So are we now judging transit systems using the Rob Ford Method? If it isn't subway it doesn't count as transit?

 

[aquateam]

I think this is getting quite off topic discussing so much about Montreal’s transit. Maybe create a thread just for comparing different cities’ transit systems?

This is now officially the Montreal Fantasy Subway thread. It can change it back in 10 years when we see progress on the DRL.

So are we now judging transit systems using the Rob Ford Method? If it isn't subway it doesn't count as transit?

The exact definition of "rapid transit" has been debated 712 834 907 times on this site. It seems like most of UT (not everyone, though, there is still room for debate) thinks that grade separation is a requirement, which isn't unreasonable. This doesn't just mean subway, though. It could be at-grade, elevated, or in a tunnel. Just as long as it can go at its own speed unimpeded by red lights, cross-traffic and left-turning vehicles. The SRT, Ottawa LRT, the (ill-fated) Scarborough LRT, etc. would all count as Rapid Transit under this definition.

It's an easier metric to measure for comparison than rides per capita, non-auto mode share, service hours per capita, etc, and also because we are mainly concerned with whose is longer

 

[Fritter]

This is now officially the Montreal Fantasy Subway thread. It can change it back in 10 years when we see progress on the DRL.

Maybe rename the DRL as Toronto's Pink line and construction will start tomorrow!

 

[WislaHD]

Maybe rename the DRL as Toronto's Pink line and construction will start tomorrow!

It is already pink on City Planning network drawings!

 

[Leo_Chan]

It is already pink on City Planning network drawings!

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

 

[W. K. Lis]

View attachment 126524
(There are 26 closures left to be planned for 2019-2020 to complete TTC’s contractual obligations for Eglinton Crosstown, on Line 1.)

A heads up point to remember should they start construction of the Relief Line. The above closures include work for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT AND Line 1 at the Eglinton Station. I would expect to see the very same closures at Osgoode Station, Queen Station (City Hall), and Pape Stations, when construction for the DRL is needed to connect with Lines 1 & 2.

I forgot to include the Science Centre Station (and Don Mills/Sheppard). Hopefully, they'll include a station box in the current construction, so that digging it in the future one more time would be less destructive to the surface and TTC services.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I forgot to include the Science Centre Station (and Don Mills/Sheppard). Hopefully, they'll include a station box in the current construction, so that digging it in the future one more time would be less destructive to the surface and TTC services.

That’s highly unlikely. Having a major design change during construction can delay it a lot.

 

[W. K. Lis]

That’s highly unlikely. Having a major design change during construction can delay it a lot.

Finch West Station on the Line 1 extension already has a rough-in connection for the Finch West LRT. The same should be included with the Science Centre Station for a rough-in connection for the DRL.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Finch West Station on the Line 1 extension already has a rough-in connection for the Finch West LRT. The same should be included with the Science Centre Station for a rough-in connection for the DRL.

I believe Finch West Station doesn’t have a rough in station box, but the station is designed with a knockout panel at a location that is good for people flow. On the other hand, Science Centre Station may not have been designed with one. I may be wrong, but if you can find some detailed station plans with a connection, then that’s good.

 

[TransitBart]

View attachment 126524
(There are 26 closures left to be planned for 2019-2020 to complete TTC’s contractual obligations for Eglinton Crosstown, on Line 1.)

I would expect to see the very same closures at Osgoode Station, Queen Station (City Hall), and Pape Stations, when construction for the DRL is needed to connect with Lines 1 & 2.

And Science Centre on Line 5 and Don Mills on Line 4. Yup.

 

[Leo_Chan]

View attachment 126524
(There are 26 closures left to be planned for 2019-2020 to complete TTC’s contractual obligations for Eglinton Crosstown, on Line 1.)

A heads up point to remember should they start construction of the Relief Line. The above closures include work for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT AND Line 1 at the Eglinton Station. I would expect to see the very same closures at Osgoode Station, Queen Station (City Hall), and Pape Stations, when construction for the DRL is needed to connect with Lines 1 & 2.

And Science Centre on Line 5 and Don Mills on Line 4. Yup.

In the perfect world, these closures will happen from 2026-2030. While in our world, it’ll be from 2126-2130 .

 

[MisterF]

So are we now judging transit systems using the Rob Ford Method? If it isn't subway it doesn't count as transit?

I never said anything of the sort.

This is now officially the Montreal Fantasy Subway thread. It can change it back in 10 years when we see progress on the DRL.



The exact definition of "rapid transit" has been debated 712 834 907 times on this site. It seems like most of UT (not everyone, though, there is still room for debate) thinks that grade separation is a requirement, which isn't unreasonable. This doesn't just mean subway, though. It could be at-grade, elevated, or in a tunnel. Just as long as it can go at its own speed unimpeded by red lights, cross-traffic and left-turning vehicles. The SRT, Ottawa LRT, the (ill-fated) Scarborough LRT, etc. would all count as Rapid Transit under this definition.

It's an easier metric to measure for comparison than rides per capita, non-auto mode share, service hours per capita, etc, and also because we are mainly concerned with whose is longer

I personally like the way you described it, which is why I don't really consider the Finch LRT to be rapid transit. Some people would say that regular bus lanes counts while others say it has to be fully grade separated metro. In reality, rapid transit is a term that's used more flexibly in day to day use. So the debate will always be there.

The length of a system tends to correlate with how comprehensive a network is and how many people have ready access to it. Montreal, for example, has better subway coverage in its central area than Toronto. The DRL will go a long way to fixing that.